Oil Leak: Crankcase Needs Resealing!!!
12-03-2008, 05:18 AM
#46
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ok, so i'm now officially BOTH depressed and disgusted.
my car finally all done last Friday, dealer test drove it Saturday and wanted to observe over the weeknd if the leak is truly cured.
Well, its not. I got a call today saying that they found telltale signs of the leak starting up again.
So it looks like the engine will have to come out again.
For the FOURTH time in less than 8,000 kms.
warranty or not, this is ridiculous. that can't possibly be good for the car, having the engine in and out so frequently.
boo.
my car finally all done last Friday, dealer test drove it Saturday and wanted to observe over the weeknd if the leak is truly cured.
Well, its not. I got a call today saying that they found telltale signs of the leak starting up again.
So it looks like the engine will have to come out again.
For the FOURTH time in less than 8,000 kms.
warranty or not, this is ridiculous. that can't possibly be good for the car, having the engine in and out so frequently.
boo.
This sucks, man!!!
My service guys told me that Porsche has some serious issues to address with all these 2007 GT3s leaking oil and even mentioned an unofficial recall of all GT3s in the UAE to replace the main seals.
Mine is doing fine so far, but I still had a mishap: after driving it 650 easy kilometers on the road, I took it to the track and was forced to stop after two laps behind the pace car when a coolant hose came off inside the engine!!! Car was taken straight to the service center, where they showed me that an aluminum part had broken; they repaired it in a day and assured me that this had nothing to do with the engine rebuild. They reportedly tested the cooling system at 1.5 bar several times, while it normally operates at 1.2 bar...
Anyway, I get to go to the next track day for free and see if everything holds!!
Let us know what is happening to your car. Maybe it is the crank case like mine?
12-03-2008, 07:41 PM
#47
Tell your dealer to put the turbo seal in it works
I had 4 seals that all failed - so far the turbo seal is holding
The dealer put it in because Porsche was trying to blame them for poor install and they said ****it and put in a seal that they knew worked
Paul
I had 4 seals that all failed - so far the turbo seal is holding
The dealer put it in because Porsche was trying to blame them for poor install and they said ****it and put in a seal that they knew worked
Paul
12-08-2008, 03:51 AM
#48
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Just visited my car over the weekend.
My dealer (actually the ONLY dealer/importer in the country) has Porsche's "flying doctor" in for a month, and has entrusted care of the car to this guy.
as the concept of a "flying doctor" is probably alien to large Porsche markets, from what i understand, this guy is a technician from the factory that-- as the name suggests-- flies around the world to various Porsche dealerships and importers, to both help out with training, supervision, and to make sure that said dealerships are living up to Stuttgart's standards.
i had a long-ish chat with the guy, and he "unofficially" admitted something we all already knew: that Porsche do indeed have a problem with the seals. apparently the problem started with the 6GT3, and Porsche made the supplier fix it, which supposedly they did successfully. however with the 7GT3, something went wrong again, hence all the RMS leaks we've been seeing.
he showed me the actual seal and the packaging, and while it looks like a decidedly low tech piece of rubber and metal, supposedly the part is very delicate, as it has some special coating that, if rubbed off, will cause the seal to fail. he took pains to show me the seal's box, which had very large red lettering on it, warning not to touch the sealing ring with your hands.
he suggested that unless the seal is applied exactly as instructed, it WILL leak, as it is extremely sensitive.
as some have suggested here, i did mention to him the fix involving the Turbo sealing ring. As he represented the factory, i was not surprised to hear him say that they don't like to experiment, and so would stick to the prescribed fix. Well WTF, its under warranty.
oh, and there's no "lemon law" that really applies in my country, so i wouldn't even imagine having the dealer replace the car. they're treating me nicely enough, and to be fair to them, we all know its a Porsche problem.
anyway, fingers crossed i get my car back this week!
My dealer (actually the ONLY dealer/importer in the country) has Porsche's "flying doctor" in for a month, and has entrusted care of the car to this guy.
as the concept of a "flying doctor" is probably alien to large Porsche markets, from what i understand, this guy is a technician from the factory that-- as the name suggests-- flies around the world to various Porsche dealerships and importers, to both help out with training, supervision, and to make sure that said dealerships are living up to Stuttgart's standards.
i had a long-ish chat with the guy, and he "unofficially" admitted something we all already knew: that Porsche do indeed have a problem with the seals. apparently the problem started with the 6GT3, and Porsche made the supplier fix it, which supposedly they did successfully. however with the 7GT3, something went wrong again, hence all the RMS leaks we've been seeing.
he showed me the actual seal and the packaging, and while it looks like a decidedly low tech piece of rubber and metal, supposedly the part is very delicate, as it has some special coating that, if rubbed off, will cause the seal to fail. he took pains to show me the seal's box, which had very large red lettering on it, warning not to touch the sealing ring with your hands.
he suggested that unless the seal is applied exactly as instructed, it WILL leak, as it is extremely sensitive.
as some have suggested here, i did mention to him the fix involving the Turbo sealing ring. As he represented the factory, i was not surprised to hear him say that they don't like to experiment, and so would stick to the prescribed fix. Well WTF, its under warranty.
oh, and there's no "lemon law" that really applies in my country, so i wouldn't even imagine having the dealer replace the car. they're treating me nicely enough, and to be fair to them, we all know its a Porsche problem.
anyway, fingers crossed i get my car back this week!
12-09-2008, 02:31 AM
#50
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Sounds encouraging Hesperus. So, they definitely identified your problem as yet another RMS leak?
I am puzzled, though, that such an essential part of the car's engine is so fragile that touching it with one's hands would more or less destroy it for its intended purpose! Surely, during every day driving, the seal is subject to more strain and duress than when someone holds in between the thumb and the index fingers!! Sounds a bit weird, but ... who knows...
Let us know how it turns out!
Khalid: you can ask your Porsche guys to call Al Naboodah in Dubai ... They seem to have the RMS leak figured out. My car is fine, inshallah (took it to 315 km/hr yesterday), and I have not heard of a recurring problem.
I am puzzled, though, that such an essential part of the car's engine is so fragile that touching it with one's hands would more or less destroy it for its intended purpose! Surely, during every day driving, the seal is subject to more strain and duress than when someone holds in between the thumb and the index fingers!! Sounds a bit weird, but ... who knows...
Let us know how it turns out!
Khalid: you can ask your Porsche guys to call Al Naboodah in Dubai ... They seem to have the RMS leak figured out. My car is fine, inshallah (took it to 315 km/hr yesterday), and I have not heard of a recurring problem.
12-09-2008, 02:43 AM
#51
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Sounds encouraging Hesperus. So, they definitely identified your problem as yet another RMS leak?
I am puzzled, though, that such an essential part of the car's engine is so fragile that touching it with one's hands would more or less destroy it for its intended purpose! Surely, during every day driving, the seal is subject to more strain and duress than when someone holds in between the thumb and the index fingers!! Sounds a bit weird, but ... who knows...
Let us know how it turns out!
I am puzzled, though, that such an essential part of the car's engine is so fragile that touching it with one's hands would more or less destroy it for its intended purpose! Surely, during every day driving, the seal is subject to more strain and duress than when someone holds in between the thumb and the index fingers!! Sounds a bit weird, but ... who knows...
Let us know how it turns out!
i held the previous seal in my hand for quite some time. i wish i had taken pictures, but it slipped my mind. it looks quite simple... maybe around 4 inches in diameter, rubber material with thin grooves, and some kind of metal material bonded to it or sandwiched between the surface.
the seal itself looks like a sturdy thing. the fragile/delicate part is a special "coating" on the rubber apparently. i would have thought that the story that it can't be touched etc was a load of bull, but he did show me the packaging of the seal, and there was indeed in very very large, very very bold and very very red lettering, a warning saying to not touch the seal with the hands.
how they actually install that thing w/o touching it, i don't know
i should have news w/in a day or two... will update you guys!
12-09-2008, 08:03 AM
#53
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They "seem" to know what they are doing. Mine is the only one that stayed dry and the rest never had any leaks after the change so I'll see what magic they weave!
Told them that if it doesn't work, I'll throw a condom on that thing next time.
Told them that if it doesn't work, I'll throw a condom on that thing next time.
12-09-2008, 11:00 AM
#54
yup, absolutely and definitely another RMS.
i held the previous seal in my hand for quite some time. i wish i had taken pictures, but it slipped my mind. it looks quite simple... maybe around 4 inches in diameter, rubber material with thin grooves, and some kind of metal material bonded to it or sandwiched between the surface.
the seal itself looks like a sturdy thing. the fragile/delicate part is a special "coating" on the rubber apparently. i would have thought that the story that it can't be touched etc was a load of bull, but he did show me the packaging of the seal, and there was indeed in very very large, very very bold and very very red lettering, a warning saying to not touch the seal with the hands.
how they actually install that thing w/o touching it, i don't know
i should have news w/in a day or two... will update you guys!
i held the previous seal in my hand for quite some time. i wish i had taken pictures, but it slipped my mind. it looks quite simple... maybe around 4 inches in diameter, rubber material with thin grooves, and some kind of metal material bonded to it or sandwiched between the surface.
the seal itself looks like a sturdy thing. the fragile/delicate part is a special "coating" on the rubber apparently. i would have thought that the story that it can't be touched etc was a load of bull, but he did show me the packaging of the seal, and there was indeed in very very large, very very bold and very very red lettering, a warning saying to not touch the seal with the hands.
how they actually install that thing w/o touching it, i don't know
i should have news w/in a day or two... will update you guys!
- since you have seen a 997gt3 seal, go back to the dealer and take a look at a 993/996 Turbo seal
- the difference is very telling and you will understand why Turbos don't leak like gt3s leak
- when you first see them together you would swear that the turbo seal wouldn't fit a gt3 as the inner diameter appears much smaller
- it is only when you realize that the inner section is "flexible" and actually seals
- i absolutely do not believe it is a coating thing
- my bet, given its design, is that the tolerance for the gt3 seal to actually work is so small that any wear and tear (which is unavoidable) will make the car leak
- the turbo seal on the other hand, with its flexible internal section, is far far less likely to leak with wear
12-17-2008, 11:33 AM
#55
I had exactly the same problem from day 1 on my RS. After 3 front seal changes they finally tracked the leak down to the case halves leaking.
Porsche would not replace the engine, neither would they authorise a teardown, (not that I would have agreed to that anyway) but the solution prescribed by the factory was to GLUE or rather epoxy over the area on the case that was leaking. Although this has fixed the leak I really don't think that this is an appropriate solution for a car of this value
Porsche would not replace the engine, neither would they authorise a teardown, (not that I would have agreed to that anyway) but the solution prescribed by the factory was to GLUE or rather epoxy over the area on the case that was leaking. Although this has fixed the leak I really don't think that this is an appropriate solution for a car of this value
12-18-2008, 12:52 AM
#56
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I had exactly the same problem from day 1 on my RS. After 3 front seal changes they finally tracked the leak down to the case halves leaking.
Porsche would not replace the engine, neither would they authorise a teardown, (not that I would have agreed to that anyway) but the solution prescribed by the factory was to GLUE or rather epoxy over the area on the case that was leaking. Although this has fixed the leak I really don't think that this is an appropriate solution for a car of this value
Porsche would not replace the engine, neither would they authorise a teardown, (not that I would have agreed to that anyway) but the solution prescribed by the factory was to GLUE or rather epoxy over the area on the case that was leaking. Although this has fixed the leak I really don't think that this is an appropriate solution for a car of this value
If the glue holds and your car is dry, count your blessings! You could have ended up with the same problems I am experiencing now. I am sure you saw this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...-disaster.html
12-18-2008, 09:50 AM
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I've learned that you have to call PCNA and complain about issues you're having and they will deal with it eventually but it will take you a few calls past your local dealer even if they said they called.
12-19-2008, 01:43 PM
#58
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You know, I occassionally pop-over here to the GT3 forum and dream a bit. I will be in the market in late '09 for a +/-$100k car and a GT3 is one of the considerations. However, I have driven my 1993 air cooled (as you know, mostly hand-built) 964 for approximately 10K miles (from 70k miles to 79K and change) doing nothing more than the occasional oil top-off. I am about ready to do a full oil change and also do a valve adjustment. The car is also on it's original clutch and not slipping, either.
Prior to this I had a new Boxter that I drove for about two years, putting about 40K miles on it. I had two RMS failures. Although, you cannot compare a Boxster to a GT3, it does cause me concern.
So on one hand, I get excited reading about these great machines you guys have and at other times I get disheartened because it seems to reinforce the notion that Porsche's highest quality ended with the passing of the 993 in 1993 model year.
So possibly one alternative "dream" scenario is to call Richard Sloan, and slap down the $140/$150K for his brand new/never titled 964 Cup Car and have a true track car, albeit with less HP than a GT3, but arguably more track worthy and on top of it, have something more rare.
I dunno, just confused, right now.
w
12-20-2008, 12:58 AM
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Porsche is dealing with the leaks, very few cars are maintenance free. In reality for the 5000+ track miles I have on my car I am quite happy with the level of maintenance required.
Stick with the GT3 unless you have a truck, trailer, storage and really want a full race car that has even more maintenance.
Stick with the GT3 unless you have a truck, trailer, storage and really want a full race car that has even more maintenance.
