SixSpeed

I could buy one set up that way now or bide my time for a car with ceramics. I know the ceramics are considered a "must have." Devil's advocates out there?

95spiderman

i wouldnt want them and didnt get them on my gt3. too expensive to replace when used on track and steels dont fade anyway. same stopping distances too. not sure about realistic improvement on unsprung weight issue but that balanced with risk of damage to ceramics with rocks, etc

flash1034

I too opted away from the ceramics. High initial cost, high maintenance costs, and potential fragility led to my decision. Also, I've had Porsche Big Reds on several of my Porsches, including my new GT3, and have never had a problem with them (fade, warping or otherwise). The only area where ceramics clearly have the advantage is the weight savings. Im not sure exactly how (or if) the weight savings translates into better driving performance but there is no denying the basic weight savings benefit in itself.

Flash

cobrien

I agree with what's been posted here. I have/had ceramics on my GT3; I've just changed them out for steels. After 10 or 12 track days this year the ceramic rotors were showing signs of wear. They're stupidly expensive to replace, so they are now stored in my basement and I've gone to steel AP Racing rotors in the front and Cup Car rotors in the rear, using my existing calipers. Yes, they weigh a bit more than the ceramics, but I've found the stopping performance to be much better. With the steels you have a wide choice of pad compounds, so you can find something you'll like. I never felt that the initial bite with the PCCBs was strong enough; I'm now running Pagid Yellows and am much happier with the overall braking performance of the car on track. Stopping distances are shorter, the brakes are still easy to modulate, and I've had no issues with fade (nor did I ever have any issues with fade with the PCCBs). So the advantages to switching to steels IMO are better braking, more pad choices, and lower cost. The only advantage to the PCCBs is weight savings, which in my experience is far offset on the track by my ability to go a bit deeper into turns with the steels.

WalkerInTN

+1.
Steel brakes are proven performers.

lawjdc

If you are buying the RS to track it, then settling for steels is a no-brainer. However, if you have no intention of taking it on the track, and instead are buying it as a collector car or garage queen, then the ceramics are indeed a "must have" option. Both are valid reasons for purchasing an RS, but the value of the ceramics depends on your expected use. IMHO

PogueMoHone

I have done it both ways: Ceramics , no ceramics, Ceramics (because of all the purported issues).

At the end of the day, after considerable waffling I settled on the ceramics because of the driving experience. Oh! what a Feeling!!!.

If you are really accomplished on the track (not me) then you probably want a Cup Car to minimize the compromises. If you are driving 7/10s or so, and not pushing the risk limits, ceramics will be fine. If you are at 9/10s then you are risking a lot more than the additional $8K or so for the ceramics (no big deal in the total cost of a $130K car).

Porsche is on the 3rd generation of ceramics, they run them at PSDS and have no problems.

At the end of the day you should drive a car equipped with each......and decide for yourself... to buy the ceramics.

I will never buy another Porsche without ceramics! Just drove them agin today. I know people who have sold their RS cars just to get ceramics.

All that said, if you want to race...be prepared to pay for the pleasure, and ceramics will be a small item in the budget.

grussell

I am selling my stock steel 997 GT3 brakes if anyone is interested. Calipers, pads, rotors, less than 2000 miles.

leif997

as usual....nothing need be added to Colm's post

Bob Rouleau

I am in the steel camp. With proper pads they brake as well as ceramics and do not require a mrtgage to replace when they wear out. Ceramics wear out, everything wears out. A must have? Hmm I made my choice and it is a must NOT have.

OldGuy

Colm you always speak for me. Bob you are of the wise ones also but you track more than Colm or I
(not including your accomplished driving career) so I think the wise words are

fewer than 10-15 track days a year PCCBS
more than 15 PCCBs become a wear item so steel is the best bet.

lawjdc

I don't dispute what Colm has said, the ceramics are awesome brakes. But my concern is not in wearing out the rotors. My concern is that if I went off track even once, I would be buying new ceramic rotors, simply because the off track pebbles and kitty litter, etc, would be ground into the rotors when I applied the brakes, thus resulting in a $10k to $20k bill. You may be at the level where that kind of expense for even a minor off-track incident is acceptable, but I'm not at that level. So when I was told that would be the cost, I changed my order to steels. I just didn't want to incur that much expense for a little track fun on the weekends.

In effect, the ceramic rotors could become a "wear item" in just one track day!

PogueMoHone

I am at the "level" (not financial) where I can't afford any off track incidents. But that concern has taught me the following (and I keep trying not to forget it).

If you contemplate an off track incident, I doubt that anyone has the skill or control to mitigate the damage to rotors only. If they had that level of skill they wouldn't have gone of in first place. If you go off track the whole car (at a minimum) is at risk! To think any less is too kid yourself.

PogueMoHone

I am at the "level" (not financial) where I can't afford any off track incidents. But that concern has taught me the following (and I keep trying not to forget it).

If you contemplate an off track incident, I doubt that anyone has the skill or control to mitigate the damage to rotors only. If they had that level of skill they wouldn't have gone of in first place. If you go off track the whole car (at a minimum) is at risk! To think any less is to kid yourself.

OldGuy

Doug,
I think you are out west here. I have had uhm... a more than few offs in my 996 GT3 with gen I PCCBs
and never had any problems with that. pebbles or rocks. 4Curves has a 996 GT3 and I assume with
his aggressive POC schedule he had more than a few offs at Button willow and Willow Springs before he handed his GT3 off to his wife (whom continues to track it) and into his Cup car. He had no problem with pebbles or rock damage. And indeed given my proximity to willow Springs(50m) Buttonwillow(100m)
and fontana(100m) I have never heard of a rock, pebbles, or bam bam problems with PCCBs on the track.
The only thing that I have heard of is 4curves switching his pads to CGT pads to keep his Gen I PCCBs in great operating conditions with many many track days.
As Colm says PCCBs should not be a major concern with a $140K car on the track.