Anyone want to defend steel brakes on an RS?
10-30-2007, 01:13 AM
#16
Steel for me here. I was able to fully spec out my GT3 and chose not to spend $9K for the PCCBs. I figure that I could get steel discs with aluminum hats for about $3K and the rest towards some really lightweight wheels and still be in the black.
10-30-2007, 04:35 AM
#17
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I like that answer the best. I'm glad I stuck with the reds. I always enjoy doing some mods to the car anyway.
10-30-2007, 10:32 AM
#20
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All else being equal, I would expect a rear engine car to outbrake a front or mid engined one.
10-30-2007, 11:02 AM
#21
It's the money!
Sounds to me like it is really about how much we're willing to dish out to play. My guess is the majority of us do not get the slight advantages of ceramics when we track.
10-30-2007, 11:22 AM
#22
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This PCCB vs iron debate has been going on for 3 years and multiple threads now. Bottom line is that rotors are a "wear item". Decide what you're willing to spend and how it fits in with your maintenance budget.
I have looked, read, heard and researched every piece of info on PCCBs (of course I'm kidding) and 50k miles later for me it'll always be PCCBs on or off the track.
Cheers.
I have looked, read, heard and researched every piece of info on PCCBs (of course I'm kidding) and 50k miles later for me it'll always be PCCBs on or off the track.
Cheers.
10-30-2007, 01:27 PM
#23
Doug,
I think you are out west here. I have had uhm... a more than few offs in my 996 GT3 with gen I PCCBs
and never had any problems with that. pebbles or rocks. 4Curves has a 996 GT3 and I assume with
his aggressive POC schedule he had more than a few offs at Button willow and Willow Springs before he handed his GT3 off to his wife (whom continues to track it) and into his Cup car. He had no problem with pebbles or rock damage. And indeed given my proximity to willow Springs(50m) Buttonwillow(100m)
and fontana(100m) I have never heard of a rock, pebbles, or bam bam problems with PCCBs on the track.
The only thing that I have heard of is 4curves switching his pads to CGT pads to keep his Gen I PCCBs in great operating conditions with many many track days.
As Colm says PCCBs should not be a major concern with a $140K car on the track.
I think you are out west here. I have had uhm... a more than few offs in my 996 GT3 with gen I PCCBs
and never had any problems with that. pebbles or rocks. 4Curves has a 996 GT3 and I assume with
his aggressive POC schedule he had more than a few offs at Button willow and Willow Springs before he handed his GT3 off to his wife (whom continues to track it) and into his Cup car. He had no problem with pebbles or rock damage. And indeed given my proximity to willow Springs(50m) Buttonwillow(100m)
and fontana(100m) I have never heard of a rock, pebbles, or bam bam problems with PCCBs on the track.
The only thing that I have heard of is 4curves switching his pads to CGT pads to keep his Gen I PCCBs in great operating conditions with many many track days.
As Colm says PCCBs should not be a major concern with a $140K car on the track.
But if what you say is true, that the ceramic discs are truly invulnerable to such injuries, then I stand corrected and wish that I had continued with the ceramic option.
-Doug
10-31-2007, 01:24 AM
#26
10-31-2007, 08:26 AM
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10-31-2007, 04:27 PM
#28
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Nerdschliefe, would it be ok if we called them metal rotors?
I have tried the metal OEM rotors, the PCCB rotors, and the floating slotted AP Racing rotors on the 6gt3, all in competition conditions. In my little test, by far and away, the PCCB's are vastly superior to the OEM metal and AP rotors in initial bite, do not require warm up before they have that bite, and have notably superior braking power during all phases of the braking process. The PCCB's give a distinct advantage over the OEM metal and AP rotors.
Having said that, there is no way I would buy a set of PCCB's at the sticker price. The AP Racing rotors aren't that far behind. I wouldn't bother replacing the OEM metal rotors with another OEM metal set.
I have tried the metal OEM rotors, the PCCB rotors, and the floating slotted AP Racing rotors on the 6gt3, all in competition conditions. In my little test, by far and away, the PCCB's are vastly superior to the OEM metal and AP rotors in initial bite, do not require warm up before they have that bite, and have notably superior braking power during all phases of the braking process. The PCCB's give a distinct advantage over the OEM metal and AP rotors.
Having said that, there is no way I would buy a set of PCCB's at the sticker price. The AP Racing rotors aren't that far behind. I wouldn't bother replacing the OEM metal rotors with another OEM metal set.
10-31-2007, 05:26 PM
#29
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Nerdschliefe, would it be ok if we called them metal rotors?
I have tried the metal OEM rotors, the PCCB rotors, and the floating slotted AP Racing rotors on the 6gt3, all in competition conditions. In my little test, by far and away, the PCCB's are vastly superior to the OEM metal and AP rotors in initial bite, do not require warm up before they have that bite, and have notably superior braking power during all phases of the braking process. The PCCB's give a distinct advantage over the OEM metal and AP rotors.
Having said that, there is no way I would buy a set of PCCB's at the sticker price. The AP Racing rotors aren't that far behind. I wouldn't bother replacing the OEM metal rotors with another OEM metal set.
I have tried the metal OEM rotors, the PCCB rotors, and the floating slotted AP Racing rotors on the 6gt3, all in competition conditions. In my little test, by far and away, the PCCB's are vastly superior to the OEM metal and AP rotors in initial bite, do not require warm up before they have that bite, and have notably superior braking power during all phases of the braking process. The PCCB's give a distinct advantage over the OEM metal and AP rotors.
Having said that, there is no way I would buy a set of PCCB's at the sticker price. The AP Racing rotors aren't that far behind. I wouldn't bother replacing the OEM metal rotors with another OEM metal set.
there IS a difference between Steel rotors and Iron rotors. Steel was tried and discarded, similarly Titanium has also been tried, along with a host of other metal materials. You are specifically referring to IRON rotors, so why not call them iron?
When the world braking record for a road legal car was set, the PCCBs were removed and brakes and rotors from a small German specialist company were fitted. The hats and callipers were aerospace grade Aluminium alloy (in the calliper's case machine from a single billet) and the rotor was cast iron from SHW, Porsche's supplier.
Many people compare PCCBs with iron rotors. However, very few are making a reasonable comparison. The are two main reasons why this comparison is not valid.
1. The rotors are often of different diameters. Not only are the forces involved different (the clamping effect is further out from the centre of the axle hub on the stock PCCB than on most of the stock iron set ups), but the masses od the rotors differ, and hence their capacity to absorg heat, in other words their braking potential.
2. The pad material. Most of the stock pads supplied by Porsche for use with iron rotors are compromises between performance and comfort. However, the pad material used with the PCCBs are more strongly tilted towards the performance end of the spectrum. Properly bedded in pads with iron rotors are more than equal to the performance experienced with PCCBs.
Porsche actually degraded the performance of the first PCCB rotors tested because the comfort factors were so poor. Since then, there has been no braking performance advantage to PCCBs over the best iron rotor based set ups, ceteris paribus.
What PCCBs do offer is less unsprung weight, which makes the car more pleasant to drive, and marginally better performing. You also notice less thump from expansion joints in the Freeway and similar features.
An alternative rotor material is now available, Carbon-Silicon-Carbide. This has excellent characteristics and has been proscribed from Formula One. Unfortunately for potential buyers in North America, the only factory developing and producing these rotors is in Britain, and given exchange rate movements, this makes these rotors too expensive for almost all buyers.
R+C
10-31-2007, 07:30 PM
#30
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