Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9

The 7.2rs is the materially better performing car to all other 7’s. I never had any of the vibration issues in 3.6/3.8/4.0, dmfw or lwfw. I never knew anyone personally that did. I’ve never used a mechanic that has seen the issue first hand but were all aware of it. That being said, there are plenty of examples on RL of it happening. I’ve never seen any conclusive evidence/opinion WHAT causes one vs the other to have issues, but plenty of theories about why 3.8/4.0/3.6/lwfw are more/less prone. Outside of the opinion that the 3.8 lwfw is most prone to vibration issues backing out fasteners (although some would say the 4.0 is and others say it’s less......so who knows), by almost every objective measure of how the machine reacts/performs, the 7.2rs is a meaningful step above the other 7’s. And then they just took that a step further on the 2rs and 4.0.

If you want confidence inspiring performance machine that still makes you work for it 7.2rs is the peak. All that being said, all these machines become less about performance and more about “feel” as they age. People don’t own a 73rs for how it performs; they own it for how it feels. I think I almost tend to like the feel of the 7.1rs out of them all, for almost completely subjective reasons. My one big knock on the 3.6 7’s is the suspension really gets flustered with any meaningful undulation.....like you just totally lose tire contact and it gets really unsettled. A lot of people mention gearing but meh, I can go either way. The long gearing with a little less torque and that sweet 3.6 makes for one of the most intoxicating, drawn out crescendos to redline I’ve ever experienced. The 4.0 and lower gearing got to RL so much faster sometimes it felt over before it started. That being said, you were almost always in the right gear/rpm with that car.......hence, subjective fun vs objective performance can be at odds at times. I could go through other little quirky things about the 3.6 that make it the charmer for me; none of them make it the better performing car but most of them causing it to be easier to access fun at reasonable speeds on street. For the track, hands down the 3.8rs is just head and shoulders better out of the box.

my analysis isn’t unique to 3.6 vs 3.8 rs. Each refresh/model pushes the performance envelope and gives me an initial RUSH of fun due to that performance envelope being extended. I admire that a similar feeling machine has taken yet another step in every performance category but somehow still feels connected to its prior gen/version. But that is the history of the entire 911 lineup. You can feel similarities in a 901 and a 992. The similarities get less and less and the performance gap wider but the lineage is still there. The real “fun” analysis for me starts to unfold over time as several better performing models get released and the RUSH of that 3.8 or 4.0 starts to fade as being “one of the best performing cars you’ve ever driven before”. THEN, for me I start to be able to really understand, “hmmm, which one FEELS the best, most fun, most comfortable, most accessible fun at sane speeds, most fun at all rpm’s/speeds, etc, etc”. EVERYONE has a different inflection point where the trade-off between performance and some other characteristic goes too far. For some, that is 356/901; 993/996 aircooled; 991/992 analogue gauges (that one makes me giggle ); 964/993 upright headlights; 73/74 impact bumpers; Hydraulic/electric steering; on and on. For some it is specifically at the 7.1rs vs 7.2rs where that trade-off gets out of whack for what they like.

they will ALL be clunky, slow and pains in the asses eventually. If you can, try to own them all at different times and figure out what you really like. Don’t worry about what some other RL yahoo says or the weighted avg collected opinion of the RL enthusiast mob says, because their criteria are likely going to be different than yours.

so, my earlier response was a LOT more concise: You really can’t go wrong with any of them and I still appreciate things I like better or worse on all of them.

Originally Posted by Sword_of_Spirit

For those with the .1, a set of nicely done up Recaro Leathers do a nice job at enhancing the feeling. It’s mentioned, but not often understood that your “connection” to car isn’t what was done to the suspension, or other handle bits. When I drove one without a bucket, the loose feeling was stark. Mentally your trying to “hold” yourself in the seat. I’d wager when a handling test is sorted, the one with buckets (all other things equal, would win out). “Cockpit” setup is well worth the effort. I’d put that over a set of tires and other cushy bits. They’ll set you back 2k or more depending on the type, but why wait for a set of OE Buckets?

very few here or elsewhere take these across the paddock gate anymore. I see the .1 lacking really in only two distinct areas. Gearing, and Interior setup. Get those two sorted, and the experience is livened up exponentially!

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9

The long gearing with a little less torque and that sweet 3.6 makes for one of the most intoxicating, drawn out crescendos to redline I’ve ever experienced. .

Originally Posted by Waxer

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9

^^^while the 7-4.0 and 991-R have very different design ethos, I DO think they share something in common that is super important. They were both example of Porsche designing a fairly modern 911 where they got 90% of everything “RIGHT”. They are both amazing “sum of the parts” examples. But, at the same time, SoS, I get what you are saying and I agree: the 4.0 and R had materially different goals in mind when designed; and drive differently as such. Other than the fact they are both modern water-pumper 911’s, there isn’t a ton of overlap. I RESPECT the 4.0 more than the R. I think it will always carry a “street cred” that holds it above the R, especially with the die-hard 911-GT enthusiast crowd. That being said, the R is a car Porsche “got it all right” and got it to all work together so well; and probably will always be one of the more fun cars to drive on street.

My 981 spyder had no gt engine, long gearing, no racing pedigree; MOSTLY the same as a soft top gt4 only de-tuned and an “inferior” suspension. HOWEVER, it is one of those “sum of parts greater than whole” feelings that I never got when I owned the 981 gt4. The amazing thing about the 7-4.0 imo: it is considered to be the driver’s 911 of all driver’s 911’s (water pumper at least). AND, at the same time, it is the most refined, drive-able 997 gt3 of them all. It has the reputation of being the last hard-core 911 gt3 but yet it will actually drive pretty damn smooth/refined if you drive it that way.

I’ll always put the 4.0 over the R when it comes to the overall package, especially including what it stands for. And I agree they stand for much different things. However, I do think they are very similar in the fact that they represent modern 911’s that Porsche absolutely NAILED in their design and only 1 generation apart.

Originally Posted by 405

Exactly the reason why the rs4.0 lwfw in my 3.6 GT3 is my favorite mod to date. The way it spins up compared to the regular dual mass flywheel is a major improvement and adds to the experience. The quicker revving 3.6 makes one of the best sounds, especially at those last few hundred rpms.

Originally Posted by Suitcase

I've owned and driven both on and off track. This is not a fair question. The .1 is a very nice car. That's it. The .2 is 90% 4.0. I used to turn back and look at it (.2 3.8 RS) every time I drove it and wonder how could it be that good? There may never be agreement about which is the best NA Liquid Cooled 911. Some say R and others 4.0. They're different. But there's never an argument about #3.

Originally Posted by 997rs4.0

... The 3.8l ends up in between the 3.6l and the 4.0l (closer to the 4.0) and that’s why I probably prefer the 3.6l over the 3.8l.
As a 4.0l owner the 3.8l is almost a 4.0l in a good way.

Originally Posted by bweSteve

I agree on all your points, and I'm also glad you said this (bolded above),... If I could own a RS4.0,.. I would not own the 3.8, but would prefer to have the Gen 1 3.6 too. Makes sense.

But for me, since I can't have more than one 997,... and I wanted to be as far away from my 964 Turbo (but not be in the 991 series),.. the Gen2 3.8 was the place for me. And I'm definitely the minority here on RL in that I literally love all body line features of the .2 better than the .1. Strange for some,... but its just me.

Originally Posted by Sword_of_Spirit

Suitcase,

I don’t want to derail this thread, but from a technical standpoint, your R doesn’t compare to the 4.0. Two completely different environments they were developed during/for..... Yes, what the R did for Porsche and the onslaught of manual enthusiasts was great. But, the two 911s are starkly different and most often times will not be compared to one another.

Originally Posted by Jrtaylor9

^^^while the 7-4.0 and 991-R have very different design ethos, I DO think they share something in common that is super important. They were both example of Porsche designing a fairly modern 911 where they got 90% of everything “RIGHT”. They are both amazing “sum of the parts” examples. But, at the same time, SoS, I get what you are saying and I agree: the 4.0 and R had materially different goals in mind when designed; and drive differently as such. Other than the fact they are both modern water-pumper 911’s, there isn’t a ton of overlap. I RESPECT the 4.0 more than the R. I think it will always carry a “street cred” that holds it above the R, especially with the die-hard 911-GT enthusiast crowd. That being said, the R is a car Porsche “got it all right” and got it to all work together so well; and probably will always be one of the more fun cars to drive on street.

My 981 spyder had no gt engine, long gearing, no racing pedigree; MOSTLY the same as a soft top gt4 only de-tuned and an “inferior” suspension. HOWEVER, it is one of those “sum of parts greater than whole” feelings that I never got when I owned the 981 gt4. The amazing thing about the 7-4.0 imo: it is considered to be the driver’s 911 of all driver’s 911’s (water pumper at least). AND, at the same time, it is the most refined, drive-able 997 gt3 of them all. It has the reputation of being the last hard-core 911 gt3 but yet it will actually drive pretty damn smooth/refined if you drive it that way.

I’ll always put the 4.0 over the R when it comes to the overall package, especially including what it stands for. And I agree they stand for much different things. However, I do think they are very similar in the fact that they represent modern 911’s that Porsche absolutely NAILED in their design and only 1 generation apart.

Originally Posted by pissedpuppy

many would not agree with you....so there's that argument to #3

Originally Posted by Mr. Adair

Wonderful assessment. The suspension story is very accurate. If you want some semblance of a smooth ride in town or bad roads 7.2 big upgrade over earlier cars. 4.0 just that much better than the 3.8 in smoothness. Best of all worlds? 7.2RS with modern passive suspensive from JRZ or KW with remotes and proper spring rates. Then you are set.