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So update #2. This last Friday and Speed District was having one of their awesome Laguna events. If you have never run with them, you should try; they are an LA outfit and usually have ~30 cars at Laguna with 3 run groups and about 3 hours of driving...pretty amazing.
Alekshop was nice enough to let me try and drive their new GT4 ClubSport MR. I have never driven a GT4 before, so it was a crazy experience on many fronts. The car was just recently acquired so not much setup work went into it; we threw on Hoosier R7 tires and went to drive.
Driving this thing was definitely a unique experience...a few notes:
- The car felt super stiff, due to the full roll cage; in particular the front end felt less flexible than on my car
- Since there is absolutely no insulation the car is really loud inside and gets very hot; a 25 minute session made me sweat
- I know this is a GT4/mid-engine thing, but the turn in is razor sharp, however if you don't slow enough mid corner oversteer is experienced...thank goodness for the TC system in the car
- The brakes from PFC are not assisted but are absolutely insane; I think this was by far the biggest difference between the CS and a street GT4 that I drove right after
The car's maximum lateral g-load for the day was 2.05g, while deceleration/braking maximum was 1.99g, compared to my car that generates 1.6g at most. Pretty incredible. Here is a quick video of the drive...again first time in a GT4 car period.
It will be really interesting to see how it feels when properly setup and with slicks. Certainly around Laguna the car is capable of 1:32s, so my 1:37s were not even close! It was really fun to experience the GT4 chassis and drive a street vs. race car back to back.
Hah thanks! I am not sure how helpful it is to anyone, but I like to have the pics and videos available for those desperate times when it is constantly raining or I have been quarantined in my house for 8 weeks due to a virus
so, bottom line...are you dying to have one, or does your modified 997.2 GT3 scratch the same itch? Ignore avatar...asking for a friend, lol.
You mean dying to have a Clubsport? Not exactly...I mean I am a big believer in using things for purpose and in that sense having a race car is amazing. You really don't have any problems abusing it, or crashing, etc.; it's designed specifically for the purpose. It would be an interesting to compare something less expensive like an E46 or S2000 race car.
Having said that, I have driven a lot of the new cars lately, and while technically faster than my car, none were able to match the mechanical, aural and physical experience that my car provides. I had many passengers leave the car shocked about how it feels and sounds when on track. For example, the 991 models are mega competent, but after 5 laps, I feel like I am not the one doing the driving. The reality is that if you buy a faster car you tend to go faster, but that only gets you so far in terms of "fun". I had quite a few friends that sold their faster cars because they had no one to drive with and once you achieve that glory lap, not much left to do. I personally don't have an ego when tracking and always look for learning opportunities, but I realize that approach does not always work for everyone.
Essentially this amounts to me deciding to keep my car for now and keep tracking it, while really working on my driving technique and enjoying all the experiences I have with it. To be fair my use case is pretty extreme and most people use their GT cars for lots of reasons...commuting, tracking, cars and coffee, mountain roads, pride of ownership, etc., so other models may meet more needs than my car would.
Ok, one last update; and this is a big exciting item for me. As this entire thread showcases my car has been pretty modified for track duty. From cup car aero and suspension, to Penske racing shocks, re-geared transmission & LSD, etc. As my skills improved so did the car and the equilibrium was maintained. There was a period during my 2nd year of tracking where the car was faster than my ability, but by now it has evened out nicely.
The one item I always wished for was a better braking "feel". Obviously the brakes work well enough and stop the car, which is evident by the lap times, but it always left me to wonder what a better setup would look and feel like. Of course I am using AP Racing rotors and have used various pads from Ferodo to Endless to Pagid, with each combination providing different feedback and often requiring a different braking style. However, what I always really wanted were better calipers/system for the car, but just could not find the right solution. Stoptech, while great, is an aged product, AP Racing Radi-Cal kits do not exist for the 997 platform and Brembo offers upgraded street calipers but does not have the GTR systems for the 997 chassis either.
Recently, I reconnected with Tom and TPC Racing, and he mentioned that TPC had collaborated with PFC to create a street kit based on the 991 cup car brakes. Tom can explain the long version of the story and how this came to be, but essentially PFC has been able to take the 991 Cup calipers, retrofit them with GT3R parts and slightly change the design of the calipers to fit OEM wheels for 997 and 991 cars. This system is likely the best braking setup you can get for heavy track duty for a street car at this time, and the price likely reflects this.
After driving the Clubsport on the same PFC calipers/pads/rotors, I decided to purchase the setup and see how it goes. Needless to say I am excited and look forward to see if it "fits" and of course how it feels. All of this should be possible by early April if the virus/quarantine/kids don't not kill me in the meantime.
Much more detailed write up coming, but for now just a few shots of the actual pieces..
Of course big thanks to Tom, Mike, and Darrick at TPC and PFC for all the information and patience. More details to come!
You mean dying to have a Clubsport? Not exactly...I mean I am a big believer in using things for purpose and in that sense having a race car is amazing. You really don't have any problems abusing it, or crashing, etc.; it's designed specifically for the purpose. It would be an interesting to compare something less expensive like an E46 or S2000 race car.
Having said that, I have driven a lot of the new cars lately, and while technically faster than my car, none were able to match the mechanical, aural and physical experience that my car provides. I had many passengers leave the car shocked about how it feels and sounds when on track. For example, the 991 models are mega competent, but after 5 laps, I feel like I am not the one doing the driving. The reality is that if you buy a faster car you tend to go faster, but that only gets you so far in terms of "fun". I had quite a few friends that sold their faster cars because they had no one to drive with and once you achieve that glory lap, not much left to do. I personally don't have an ego when tracking and always look for learning opportunities, but I realize that approach does not always work for everyone.
Essentially this amounts to me deciding to keep my car for now and keep tracking it, while really working on my driving technique and enjoying all the experiences I have with it. To be fair my use case is pretty extreme and most people use their GT cars for lots of reasons...commuting, tracking, cars and coffee, mountain roads, pride of ownership, etc., so other models may meet more needs than my car would.
Thanks for the great info. I feel the same about the 991, and at the end of the day it's always more fun to have a battle with someone on the track in a vehicle with similar performance. I am always on the lookout for a car that's more fun, but I can't imagine anything better than a well setup 997 GT3.
This last Friday, I was fortunate to have a friend rent Thunderhill Raceway all to himself and invite a few people. The event ended up with 6 cars and an all day open track at 80F sunny weather. It was a very much needed mental health day. Since my car is in pieces being "upgraded" and PMNA is closed, Alekshop was kind enough to let me share their Clubsport for the event!
Being out of the house and just driving to TH alone was a treat...
I had a chance to drive a collection of Clubsports, including the new version!
At 6'4 220lbs i am almost hitting the max of what is possible to squeeze into this car, or you have to have the flexibility of a 12 year old Russian Gymnast!
I have to say that the new car is more compliant and refined, but the performance did not feel significantly enhanced, certainly not the extra $80K in cost, but if you can afford it why not? Here is a quick video of Aleks doing a 1:54.2 running lap, which I thought was quick for being in the car for the 2nd time ever.
Pretty amazing experience overall. I cannot wait for my car to be done and ready for the early June series of events. In the meantime this will have to hold me over...damn COVID!
Well it has been a couple of busy weeks, so three separate updates. I was able to go back to Thunderhill for the weekend with HOD on 3/7 and 3/8. Since HOD is serious business needed some new brake pads and tires!
Are those used pads basically trash? I have a few sets that are about like that wondering if they are even worth keeping as spares
u should junk your and buy a CS or a cup car and be done with it ;-)
Yah price/performance on the CS is unbeatable I think, while the cup car I just cannot afford. I will say that after driving all these cars and the new GT3s and RS', I still find the driving "experience" of my car the best and most engaging. Plus growth with the car has made it more meaningful to me at this stage.
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
Are those used pads basically trash? I have a few sets that are about like that wondering if they are even worth keeping as spares
I think those pads are still good, but when they get to that thickness I start to dislike my pedal feel, plus the pad puts a lot more heat into the rotors and the fluid. The ME20 wear really slowly, so it would have been fine for another weekend easily, while Ferodo DS1.11 would likely last a day max. I also try and align rotor and pad changes as much as possible to maximize equal wear. We will see how the care does with the PFC system; the taper effect should go away.
03-15-2020, 04:59 PM
