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Huh? I was referring to a previous post for this past June. Way it’s worded I see how it can be inferred.
Sell your RS?
I gotcha. I ask because your 997 is on the farther end and you’ve got some hours under your belt. Just as a reference as I’m a local.
Agreed on the many variables. Laguna isn’t your best track as many things change out here in just one day. Too bad the renovation is on hold as the tarmac is pretty bad. If you ever get to walk it, you’d see just how bad! Weather wise is the greater. Sonoma and Thunderhill i’d say are far more consistent in the latter terms.
Have you ever compiled the “deltas” between modifications? Not many stick with a car as long which is why I’m asking. But having fun is where it’s at. Not that having some fast times isn’t all that fun either.
Yeah I have been with the same car for a while, as it allows me to evolve the car as my skills increase. I have driven much faster cars and have realized that the threshold for speed, danger, adrenaline and excitement is very similar for all of them. At Laguna for example doing a 1:34 lap in my car feels just as dangerous and as exciting as doing a 1:30 in a McLaren 720s. Most of the "faster" cars achieve the times through pure power and speed on the straightaway, but their cornering loads are the same, or lower as mine. I also like the idea of "bonding" with a car and perfecting the utilization of its quirks. The 997 platform is pretty flawed overall, and essentially most of the stuff had to be changed to achieve the consistency of lap times. Assuming that roll-cage, harnesses, a seat and a track alignment are mandatory, I would summary the following in terms of performance improvement:
- Tires will always dictate your ultimate speed. R compounds are slower than semi slicks and those are slower than slicks. The primary difference between different tires may be steering fidelity, consistency through the session, ultimate lap speed vs. longevity. No matter what tire I use, I don't get beyond 10-12 HCs, with slicks realistically lasting 40-60 minutes of fast driving. Anyone that I have met that uses tires for more than 2 days (i.e. 10-12 HCs) is usually just driving very slow. Tire wear and speed go hand in hand, no magic or tricks to it.
- Wide front end was a significant upgrade, especially on the rear engined car. There is a reason all the subsequent 911 generations have a wider and wider front track. The mod significantly changed the way the car performs under braking and mid/high speed corners. I think an absolute must for this car/platform and the performance scales with other mods.
- Aero in terms of splitter and rear wing. This mod alone is good for 1-2 sec a lap at Laguna. It also makes the car more stable giving confidence to novice drivers and scales amazingly well with tires. Likely the biggest performance upgrade one can make, but arguably also the ugliest for a dual purpose street/track car.
- Suspension including shocks and the various mono-ball pieces is also high on the list. It likely contributes to a second a lap improvement, but more importantly it makes the entire platform more stable and scalable. I always went for a 2 way adjustable shocks, as anything above that would require actual science for setup. A serious track car must have an appropriate setup suspension component wise, or it will simply hit diminishing returns quickly (i.e. not be able to utilize the other components fully).
- Brakes are also a nice component, but would be last on my list. Braking in general is the most difficult technique that an amateur can master and is often the key differentiator between us and a pro driver. Obviously brakes can and do make a big difference in terms of consistency, but are the most difficult to max out even in OEM format.
- In general reducing weight in the car also yields overall improvement (e.g. light weight battery, lighter wheels, less carpet/insulation, take out extra seat, etc.). All these things add up and on average every 100lbs is close to half a second gained, not to mention less wear and tear.
- Re-gearing has been fun on my car, but is likely the most useless in terms of performance, unless you create specific gearing ratios for a specific track. A universal setup can simply not work on all tracks. The LSD component on the other hand is a significant upgrade, especially for braking stability and low corner exit speed. Worth doing.
Besides all the upgrades, one also has to consider personal goals, personal propensity for learning and general feel for the car. Many of my friends cannot feel the "nuance" in setup changes and simply think "throttle - go" and "brake - stop", try and see how it goes. Others love data and can replicate anything that they see is possible. For me personally it is a physical act of learning and feeling the g-loads, so I make upgrades and changes periodically so I can feel and reflect on each change, eventually customizing the setup. Many people also worry about upgrades before they can go reasonably fast and maximize the OEM components first. So it all kind of depends.
At the end of the day, to most of us, it's just a hobby and we need to figure out how much fun we can extract out of it and maximize that.
I understand your methodology. Not so much in interest of changing “x” that now results in an improvement that can be equated in seconds lost. Nonetheless, being comfortable is paramount and specific to each driver. Thanks for sharing.
as far as the 997 platform, it has its flaws for sure. 991 brought about some uniqueness that other manufacturers have used for sometime. But, that’s what makes these and past 911’s fun. Finding a way to improve....
Another Sonoma day, this time with Exclusive Track Days. It was amazing as there were about 15 cars in the Open group with 7 sessions for the day. Car performed really well achieving 2.1g in cornering and 2.2g in braking with 2 day old R1S tires. Given the extensive seat time, a couple of specific laps definitely pushed me beyond my limits, opening my mind to what is possible on the track (i.e. by not crashing realized that the car can do more in some sections). I can't wait to try again.
Always exciting arriving at the gate in the AM, knowing what is about to happen!
Definitely getting spoiled with Sonoma in August. Next one is coming up on the 11th with HOD! Let's see if I can apply what was learned during this event.
Thanks bud! I use AIM data with go pro video, edited with Cyberlink editor and then overlaid through Race Render. Sounds complicated, but once you design the template it is easy to do.
August is Sonoma month. Have another set of videos coming up with a new PB lap.
Thanks bud! I use AIM data with go pro video, edited with Cyberlink editor and then overlaid through Race Render. Sounds complicated, but once you design the template it is easy to do.
August is Sonoma month. Have another set of videos coming up with a new PB lap.
Nice. I love my racelogic setup but wish it had the cornering g's and speeds displayed (peak/average) like yours does.
Another day at Sonoma with HOD in the books. As always it feels like a privilege and absolute pleasure to drive this amazing track. The car sounded "off" and after inspection I noticed that the titanium center muffler has finally reached the end of life. After 3 track seasons, repairs and support, it was done. Replaced it with a brand new steel unit.
This month yielded 4 total Sonoma days, so setup and preparation were easy!
Despite traffic I hit 1:44 and set a new personal best, although my best "running lap" was a 1:44.2. According to data the car is capable of a 1:42.9 lap, so more to go.
The track is bumpy and harsh and you have to ride the berms for speed. One of the laps destroyed my under body panels, which made some unnerving, but benign sound for the rest of the day.
Car went back to Alekshop for brake fluid, gear and engine oil replacement and to address those broken panels. In addition the second set of Forgeline 19 inch wheels arrived!
Next up Sonoma again with Exclusive Trackdays - more practice!
At this time I feel like I am posting a repetitive dream over and over! Another Sonoma day with Exclusive Trackdays, with 10 cars total in the open passing group. The weather was good with heavy smoke/ash from the fire. The car was maintained by Alekshop and turned out to be problem free. It was one of the top 5 track days of 3 years of tracking - just very good and intense feeling driving and bonding with the car.
I was there with two friends and their awesomely modified GT4s - Verus aero makes those cars so quick.
Later in the day wife stopped by too hang out and show off her shoes.
Did a total of 6 sessions burning close to 5000 calories for the day. Sonoma is a mega physical track at full speed - really challenging and fun!
The tires were on their 2nd day, but produce some very consistent lap times. I ran them at 40PSI rather than my usually 34-36 and they felt amazing. The rear was stepping our helping with slow corner turn in, but was still within my skill set to control.
Unfortunately BFGoodrich discontinued the R1S in my sizes (265 and 315), which is pretty sad, as those tires were mega cost effective and very fast. It was a great farewell to such good companions with search for replacements starting. I will try the Hoosier R7s next, followed by Hankook and Yokohama slicks. Need to find the best price/performance after the amazing R1S.
That was 4 Sonoma days in a 5 week span...definitely learned a lot. Now that I am used to the PFC brakes they have enabled an unprecedented feel and consistency; one of my absolute favorite upgrades on the car.
Next up is Thunderhill weekend with HOD in 100F weather. Let's see how that goes with the R7s.
After the last Sonoma event the car went in for maintenance with engine oil, transmission fluid and brake fluid changes. We also finally took out most of the interior and installed lexan rear quarter and rear windows. Doors and windshield coming up next.
With the interior out the car is much louder inside and the weight reduction was pretty significant overall. Car feels quicker on the straights and almost too lively in the turns now. I will have to corner balance and re-adjust the setup surely.
Thunderhill weekend with HOD was on the menu. Unfortunately the air quality was awful at 280AQI score, but we all still went - probably not the best idea for long term health. At TH I was fortunate to be able to drive with some pretty setup GT4s and CS.
My car cooling off in the 98F weather.
This was the absolutely last day on by beloved R1S, as the tires are discontinued.
I had to finish the day on RE71R tires, which I have not driven on since March. While still pretty fast, it was pretty shocking how numb the R compound tires felt compared to R1S. They felt much safer and easier to drive, but just very blunt - almost like comparing a hammer to a scalpel; definitely not nearly as enjoyable as the R1S, regardless of lap times. The RE71R were on 19 inch wheels, which almost look silly on my car now.
Once home the tow vehicle smelled like an ashtray and deserved some proper cleaning.
The next event will be Sonoma this coming Friday and I have decided to try the Hankook F200 slicks. If those work well, the car will be setup to their specifications and they will become my go forward tire. Let's see how they do!
I was able to source a set for $1600 shipped, which makes them cheaper than R7 and more expensive than R1S. No question they will be faster than both so it’s just a question of longevity. If they can do 10-12 heat cycles then I am happy.
Just as a reference point none of the tires I have used (R compound or otherwise) have lasted me beyond 10-14 heat cycles with the car setup as is. They simply become too slow to enjoy at which point you are just putting wear and tear on the drive train.
As an example on the R1S new I can do 1:44 at Sonoma, while on the 10-12 HC times drop to 1:47, which is an acceptable delta for me. Just providing some context so you get the idea.
2020 has been generally an awful year, but at least it yielded a ton of Sonoma days. Another event with Hooked on Driving in 88F sunny weather and sold out groups. This was the first time I used the Hankook F200 slicks on the car, so was going to be a good experiment/experience.
Arrival early and unloading.
First session I failed sound unfortunately, but nothing some turn down pipes could not fix. Apparently Dundon street headers come in at 104.1 DB, although Sonoma does have the walls that echo.
The tires themselves were an interesting experience. I used the 250/640 and 300/680 sizes, which amount to 25.1 front and 26.8 rear diameter, causing quite the rake on the car. I had to decrease my wing angle to compensate. The front tires looked pretty narrow for my 10 inch wheel, so next time I will try the 260/660 size, which will be closer at 26 diameter size.
The tires are a medium compound and take about 2-3 laps to fully warm up, causing the last 6 laps of a session to be mega fast, which is the complete opposite of my R1S, which would hit their prime in the first three laps. The Hankooks have incredible and consistent grip, to the point where I had to physically and mentally readjust to the levels of grip in high speed and high g load corners. My times were incredibly consistent throughout the day with all 6 sessions yielding 1:45 lap times within a few tenths of a second (i.e. 1:45.1, 1:45.2, 1:45.3, 1:45.1, 1:45.5, 1:45.6) with my best lap matching the R1S 1:44.6. This was a sold out day, so traffic was a factor every time and I obviously pushed these tires as hard as the R1S, but not much more.
Another factor is the car setup. Hankook was nice to share their cup alignment specification for the tire, so once setup I am sure it will feel even better. I am guessing that the tire is almost 2 seconds a lap faster than R1S or R7. The braking performance was also amazing, finally maximizing my PFC brakes, maxing out at 2.1g braking force. The brakes actually worked amazing well, given the grip available.
Only thing to find out next is longevity. They are already at 6 heat cycles, and if they can last 10-12 (i.e. another day), it will be the tire of choice going forward.
So, are you West Coast guys envious of us East Coast guys and the tracks we have here the same way we are of yours? It's bad enough you have great weather and can exercise all year round, but the tracks are simply awesome!
So, are you West Coast guys envious of us East Coast guys and the tracks we have here the same way we are of yours? It's bad enough you have great weather and can exercise all year round, but the tracks are simply awesome!
It's just not fair.
Regards,
Jealousy
You know it's absolutely the case. This year I was planning to try Road Atlanta, VIR and Glen with some friends, but COVID put a stop to that. I really like the idea of old school, historic tracks, that were designed before modern safety standards. They tend to be quirky and nuanced and must be learned appropriately.
I always feel incredibly fortunate to be able to participate in this hobby, especially at a relatively young age. It is also amazing that i am 35 minutes from Sonoma, 90 minutes from Laguna and 2.5 hours from Thunderhill, not to mention having access to Buttonwillow, Willowsprings and Thermal in SoCal. Plus winter and spring are the best times to drive here, as the air is cold but tracks still generally dry.
Out of all those, Sonoma is still my favorite, as it requires a well setup car, precise skills and some ***** to go fast. It is interesting to see people drive "fast" at Laguna and then putter along at Sonoma. Good times!
One more day at Sonoma, last one for the year I promise! This was with Exclusive Track Days and a pretty full event. The organizer setup the FIA configuration with two chicanes at T7 and T9 which made the track much longer and very different; caused all sorts of incidents with folks being confused. I decided to use the 260/660/18 front Hankooks as they are wider and have a better diameter ration than the 250s. We also aligned the car to Hankook Motorsport specs.
The car felt very much amazing and well balanced - just a joy to drive!
Best time of the day was a 1:51.2, which adjusted for the chicanes probably translates to a 1:44.2. Considering traffic - not bad. Certainly another 1 second in the car if driven properly.
The family came out to visit as well!
The ETD photographer caught some good shots of the car on the track.
Finally, caught some interesting footage of an e36 almost taking out a Senna.
07-31-2020, 04:33 PM
