silver_tt

I never said 95% of all 9A1s will fail -- I was pointing out that the 997.2 up until the 991.2 with SUMEbore can suffer from this problem just like a 997.1. The fundamental technology is still the same -- cast in place Alusil cylinders.

Honestly I would have to defer to someone like Charles on which blocks score more than others since he can see actual data points. That is going to be the best resource for information, way better than I could give. As I mentioned previously though, there are many more M96/7 engines with Lokasil/Alusil out there with higher mileage on them now vs 9A1s that are newer and have been under warranty covered by Porsche and not driven much. So you would really need to "normalize" your data for this rather than just looking at absolute numbers.

Don't get too caught up on price asymmetries, markets are not efficient. I bought a low mileage 996TT for $38K about 12 years ago that was way cheaper than a 997 would have been at that time and it's a better car. Everyone wanted a 997. People didn't like the 996 headlights, that's all they would talk about. Like I care about the headlights when I'm swooshing by them at the track on boost.

8KaboveMSL

Totally agree on market efficiency point. It’s just that at some point the information asymmetry about failure rates (if that is indeed what it is) is likely abate as more owners experience the issue.

In all fairness Jake’s point about the M9X engines is probably more nuanced than I articulated above. I am sure it’s probably something along the lines of all engines are going to fail at some point and he’d rather not have to work on a 9A1.

silver_tt

I think Jake was saying he doesn't like working with the 9A1 (he mentions some of the reasons, the port work etc). My understanding is that Jake would like to go back and worked on air cooled stuff (RAT=raby aircooled technology). Engines were more simple then. Everything is complicated now (like the control solenoid on the oil pump I was talking to Jake about) due to emissions laws.

I own a DFI engine in one of my cars but a lot of smart people I know don't like direct injection technology for some of the reasons I previously mentioned. To their point, it stretched my timing chain to the point where it almost ruined an engine and the oil comes out looking black even after just a couple thousand miles when I short change it. It's the cause of a lot of oil consumption issues too and is the reason why a lot of newer direct injection engines drink oil, especially when long drain intervals are utilized.

Porsche97

Hello everyone, im not sure if im in the right place in this forum to ask this question but here it goes. Im new in porsche brand and im inclined to buy a 997.1 c2 from 2006. It as 170.000 km ( 105.000 miles), but it seems like it as been good taken care off. Today I went check on the car and turned it on just to check if it made some sort of noise or ticking. I let it on for about 3 mins and recorded the sound. The car is standing still for about 5 months, so it was cold and maybe that could have an impact. When i turned it on there was a bit of smoke but not many and then it dissipate (i think is normal when cold). In attachment i´ll have the recording so you guys can help me understand if it has any notable weirid noise or if its good.

silver_tt

Bore scoring will sometimes manifest itself as a ticking sound, strikingly similar to a stuck lifter. When you say the tailpipes smoked, did you look at the smoke or smell it? -- was it oil, fuel (blue smoke), or water? The only way to know for sure is going to be to drop the sump and use a borescope to inspect the cylinder walls.

Porsche97

Right

Left
I think it smelled like gas being burned not oil. Btw, the tailtipes look like that too. The left on looks a bit darker but maybe its only in my head.

Sporty

Its got 105k miles on it and it sat for 5 months ; you cant tell anything now; change the oil and drive it for awhile and check your oil usage. They all make noise and smoke a bit when they have sat for awhile. Your tail pipes look normal to me. How much you pay for the car?

Porsche97

Im from portugal so the prices here are much higher than US and UK. Here a 997.1 c2 costs about 55.000€ and there arent much selling. This one is 50k

Opposer

I owe a 987.2 base Cayman, 35k mileage.
During an oil change i always explore the oil filter looking for metal particles. There are no particles in used oil and filter.
Can I be sure that there is no progressing bore scoring in cylinders? Or there can be bore scoring and no particles in oil?

Charles Navarro

There can be bore scoring without particles visible in the oil. What is the best recommendation is to have the cylinder bores scoped to make sure you don't have scoring and then test the engine oil that comes out to see if there is elevated iron, aluminum, and silicon in the sample. When scoring starts, there is always an uptick in these wear metals in the oil before symptoms manifest. If you test the oil at every oil change (or at least once yearly) so you can build trend history for your engine to know when and if something is going wrong.

Sporty

What is the iron come from - the rings themselves?

Charles Navarro

Iron comes from the rings, skirt coating, valvetrain, chains, sprockets, etc. - any other ferrous components in the engine.

Opposer

Lord...
even when owning a non-bore-scoring-prone 2.9 on mk2, porsche-owner has to worry about it...

Charles Navarro

Just use Driven DI40 with shorter drain intervals, only use Top Tier fuels, and add Injector Defender (or another fuel additive that has polyetheramine) and don't worry about it. That's the best you can do for any engine with Lokasil or Alusil bores.

El. C

Eye opening thread for sure.