jakeg

So what is causing this scarcity and prices?

Doug H

On Manheim, there is currently the following 991s:

2013 (8)
2015 (16)
2014 (20)
2016 (9)

13 are GT3
13 are Turbos

That's not a lot of NA 991 inventory and most are on wholesale board and not going to auction.

Here are the number of 997s currently on Manheim:

2005 (12)
2006 (16)
2007 (12)
2008 (17)
2009 (12)
2010 (6)
2011 (11)

MrSlacker

And most of the ones are automatic convertibles lol

Doug H

Competition and inventory has been bad for a while. My close buddy that sits there all day long purchasing cars for lots all over the country including a large indoor facility he has told me companies like Carvana and Carmax are running prices up bad and paying dang near retail for crap cars. Then they list them for only hundreds more than they paid (keeping retail prices down) and are gouging customers on the back end with interest, warranties and other back end products which they own. They apparently own not just the finance companies, but the companies offering warranties, wheel and tire and etc.

He tried to purchase a Mercedes at auction for a friend of mine and sent it back today. The thing had a clean fax, but was wrecked and it went for dang near retail itself. He said Mercedes pulled back inventory release to drive prices up. Dealers obviously get first shot at lease turn ins. What they pass on ends up at auction. Mercedes was dumping 700 at a time, but pulled back to about 150 to drive auction prices up.

I would never purchase used again except from the dealer. They will have the clean cars and can generally sell certified at same price or cheaper as non-certified auction crap dealers passed on that ends up on most used lots. Those auction cars generally also need a fair amount of $$$ for wear items, services and etc. which is another reason they end up at auction.

Doug H

Here is a break down of automatics v. manuals for the 997.1s and 997.2s (a lot were pdks in .2 turbos).

Automatic (41)
Manual (35)
Not Specified (10)

Convertible Top (37)

The .1 break down is as follows:

Automatic (25)
Manual (25)
Not Specified (7)

Convertible Top (23)

Para82

Interesting notes on auction cars - this 997 Turbo recently came off auction - turned out to be a mess (differential / wiring all jacked) - so bad the dealer refused to sell to me and sent it back instead.

Doug H

Looks like they still have that listed . . ., perhaps waiting on someone who doesn't want a PPI or too late for arbitration?

MrSlacker

Doug H, I have access to Manheim as well so I know whats on there very well and keeping a close eye on everything that shows up.

I agree with you regarding a lot of cars being crap. My rule of thumb is not to look at cars that have been listed online for sale already by retail dealers. There is a reason why they couldn't sell them retail and sent them to the auction.

HOWEVER, there are plenty of wholesale dealers who purchase trade-ins and send them all to the auction for quick flips.

I have 2 examples:
1) I know a sales person at a local Porsche dealer well and asked him to get me a 997 that comes on a trade. He said they do not retail any cars that cannot be CPOed and wholesale every single one of them. 997 is too old for CPO so even if car is nice, they wholesale it and it ends up at auction - doesn't mean its a bad car.

2) Looked at 2 997.1 at Manheim NJ this week. Both were 1 owner cars with every record on CarFax. Both were SPOTLESS - I went to the auction just for them. They were traded in to a MB dealer who wholesaled them to his usual guy and that company sent them to auction because they don't retail cars at all. Cars were awesome, but price was too high for me for the mileage (almost 80K)


So as someone in the business as well, I have to agree to disagree with you when it comes to generalizing that EVERY car at auctions is crap.

snake eyes

Inventory always Dries up this time of year..wait until fall or winter and get a good deal.

The market always works like this. VERY few 911's for sale right now.

Also, economics...
economy is coming back

Fun fact - I bought my car 3 years ago and can sell it for the same price I paid for it lol - got trade in offer only 3 grand less than original purchase price.

NOW THAT IS AWESOME

NorthCoastDoug

The elusive 997.2 Targa 4S

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/6088062400.html

Doug H

The Porsche dealers I know well and the Sonic dealers which cover just about every brand including Porsche will keep 996s and 997s in heart beat if they are good. Wife worked for a Sonic Porsche. They want older cars that are clean. As in link below, Sonic typically has a nice selection of super clean 996s and 997s at prices similar to or lower than lots selling auction cars.

http://www.sonicautomotive.com/used-...sche&model=911

Porsche dealers are certifying 997.2s all the way back to 2009s. They have to be near perfect cars unless the stole the trade and plenty of room $$$ wise to get them up to CPO specs. Here are 46 listed:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...20201&zc=37221

I purchased a CPO 997.2 from a Porsche dealer 4 months ago who certified it before they sold it to me.

A clean appearing car at auction may have all sorts of issues one won't know about until they really dig in on it.

I think my buddy told me the other day Carfax will certify with up to 7 panels painted on . . .

vtgt

Agreed on sonic they seem to have nice cars and priced very fairly! At or slightly below market and lower then most every Porsche dealer.

MrSlacker

***WARNING***
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2726/overview/

This car was sold at auction in end of December 2016 with different wheels - I have the VIN and photos saved.

It was in rough cosmetic shape and sold for around $38K I believe

Abe Froman

Here's the biggest thing going on:
Most of the cars available used are damn good, as there are so many performance cars from 2010+ out there.
It's a great time to be a car enthusiast, although it seems to be expensive.

vtgt

Wait till winter unless you have the itch now. Summer fees right now, pay to play. Some drake still out there thanks to threads like this.