SeanInLA

Ok, I can see that. Then I retract my statement if that was his argument.

Personally, I bet there are likely more people driving around in new Chevy's that should have bought a used car. Buying a new Porsche 911 is what some people spend on a home in many states. So they must have good credit history to begin with. (at least one would like to think)

Is there a thread or link showing Porsche owner demographics? I would be curious to where I fit in.

SeanInLA

Why is that? Because Porsche didn't invent it?
As long as they offer a switch to turn it off then then what's wrong with it?
Maybe you are the heal-toe expert on this site, and that feature allows anyone to rev-match with your mastery?

What do you think of these items:
PSM
PDK-Launch Control
ABS
PS

sizquik

I drove the Z with the rev matching transmission and I have to say it was very fun to drive.

Mike in CA

A quick Google search yielded a bunch of hits. The most recent info I saw was a Forbes survey in November 2007 which showed Porsche highest of the brands surveyed in household income.

Porsche: $187,705
Mercedes-Benz: $162,824
Audi: $153,746
Jaguar: $150,587
BMW: $148,992
Lexus: $141,355

The entire article wasn't accessible so I don't have other stats from it.

SeanInLA

Excellent - that formula fits what I thought someone should spend on a car. (See my previous post.) I estimated about 1 month of salary each year. And to buy a new car in 6 years. Thus, 6 months of salary would equal 50% of your income for one year. 50% of 187.7K = about 94K on a car; in this case a Porsche.

At Law

This is exactly what I meant with my statement.

SeanInLA: I would agree that most of the people who have had
to heavily finance their 911's are, indeed, high wage earners. However,
they just also happen to be high spenders and are unable to keep
cash in their pockets.
You're not going to be approved for a loan on a $100k + plus
sports car if you're only making $100k a year.

Compare this to your typical red neck bouncing around in a brand new
Chevy/Ford/Dodge pick-up truck which costs $45k and he earns $45k a year.
This type of foolish financing happens thousands of times per day.

Alfaguy2

There is never a good time to buy a Porsche. If you keep analysing and planning you will die never knowing the sheer pleasure of owning one.

Carpe Diem and all that.

niche

+1 Buying a Porsche NEVER makes any sense...

atr911

Of course you'll be approved, but it all depends on your TDS.

To those of you going on about income and affordability:

You guys make me laugh sometimes. Honestly, who are you to suggest someone can/can't afford something? I too, share the opinion that priorities should be in line, but to suggest that your priorities are 'better' than anothers?

If a guy wants a 911 and is aware of the sacrifices that he/she needs to make to afford such a car, (yeah, that's right, some of us had to sacrifice for our cars contrary to opinion of the keyboard warriors) I say go for it. Be happy. Know that there are long AND short term consequences to your choice, but so long as you are aware of them, get 'er done!

Consider, if you will, that based on our consumerism on this continent that most people will buy and sell cars every 3-5 years. Calculate the depreciation on all those cars taking into consideration that the above owner has paid 90% of the depreciation within those 5 years. $20,000 car worth $3000 after 4 years?

An accord will never look as good, drive as well and hold it's value as well as a 911 will. Every 3 years you're going to get bored or find it ugly and want to sell it to buy the latest and greatest thing out that month (paying a premium for it). I'll always love my 997 and it's design will remain timeless and attractive for years to come. This is the beauty of the 911 platform and evolution, they always look like a 911 and to all but the most educated of eyes it's difficult to tell a 99 from an 09. Ask someone how they feel about their 993 15 years later...

I think that the financially responsible thing to do is buy a 3-5 year old, CPO 911, love it to death, drive the **** out of it and keep it for a long long time. It's all about short term pain (payments for 5-8 years) and long term gain (a potential lifetime of memories of driving the finest engineered automobile in history). You'll pay $50K for a cherry car, and it'll never be worth less than $20K if it stays in good shape. Ultimately, you'll pay a similar depreciation as if you bought a fully loaded new Accord but you'll own the car for twice as long and enjoy it infinitely more.

Who cares if you can't go out to dinner as often or buy a new dress shirt every few months while you're making the car payments? I've seen countless examples of money squandered on sillier things than cars (women come to mind initially... )

As a side note, about 6 years ago, Forbes (I believe) suggested that a mid eighties 911 was one of the best investments you could make. I remember them selling for between $13-16K at the time. Now a nice one is worth over $22K. Considering the way the rest of the market has gone, I wish i'd have bought 100 of them!



I know how much I sacrificed for my car and for that I appreciate it that much more every time I turn the key.

Kuhan

I find the cost/value/benefit analysis all very interesting but income is a very personal thing and something that varies hugely amongst people.

For me, the one consideration that was most important was the stability of my job. I don't want to be stuck with a large liability that would sink me if I lost my job. Fortunately, I have a very secure job and plenty of equity that makes Porsche ownership achievable.

BUT I also had to look at what I was spending my money on and make some sacrifices to ensure I'm OK. These sacrifices will make you laugh - I managed to get $20k to put a deposit on my Pcar by selling some fountain pens I own. I stopped buying pens now that I have the Porsche. I probably spent an average of $1k a month on them. I also stopped buying watches and I probably spent $1k a month on those.

So I could have had an Accord and have all the nice watches and pens that I want or I can drive a Porsche and have only a couple of nice pens and watches. In the end, the Porsche won hands down!

Zipgun

LOL! Life is way too short to be analyzing (a car for pete's sake) purchase in such depth or in such a manner. Do you really need reassurance from complete strangers? Because other than that I can't see what your hoping to achieve with all these questions.

I haven't put in this much thought even when buying a house..Well I never had to ask strangers on a forum at least. And I've never posted so many times in a single thread..But rest assured its my last one in here so save the remarks..

With all the " How much you should earn a month to buy a 911" and Porsche owner demographic" opinions aside. Like any car a 911 will depreciate as soon as you drive it off the lot. Check the prices of the latest CPO or used cars and see how much they really do lose in value. And like any other car it's (every 6 years or so) replacement will inevitably debut.

No matter what a"Porsche"means to any one person, when it comes down to it, it's just a car. One that's going to get bird bombed, rained on , snowed on, bug splattered and rock chipped.After a few years of ownership when all the excitement, buyers remorse and that new car smell has dissipated. All of this is going to be a mute point.


It's really simple man.. New or used.. If you like the 911 and you don't have to street walk to buy one? Then go out and get one.

Besides wouldn't you rather be out there driving a Porsche? Than being stuck indoors typing about one?

SeanInLA

The analytical questions I ask may be due to my line of work. I deal with numbers, figures, reports, forecasts, dashboards, projections, cost benefit analysis, etc. So that is likely coming out in my writing style.

And yes, I would rather be driving a Porsche right now, but I am typing about one while at the same time earning the money to buy one.

Mike in CA

No reason for you to be put off that I think my priorities work better for me; don't you think your value system works better for you? We're all here to express our opinions, and most of the time they're just that, opinions. I haven't financed a vehicle in over 25 years, but there was a time, so I get it. Though I wasn't financing high end sports/luxury cars, if you just gotta have it don't listen to my opinion, as you say "get 'er done". Bankers gotta eat too!

Canyon56

Where are you now? K-Town? Weho? Los Feliz? Silverlake? Over the hills in Toluca?
btw, what makes you think I live on the westside? I never mentioned where I lived

Anyway, no reason to tell me about LA, I've produced exhibits and have published several articles on LA and LA County. I'm intimately familiar with almost every neighborhood, including ones most people don't even know exist. Hollywood proper has undergone commercial development (think tourist $$) but in housing demographics it's still a different story.

However, it was you who was concerned about having an expensive car and the issues of parking. An appropriate answer is that Hollywood isn't the best place to have a Porsche, imho (plus the roads are in horrifically bad shape now.) If anything you're going to be frustrated driving it and will be heading way up north, going west and up the PCH into the SM Mtns, or much farther east just to give the car needed exercise. If you can't really drive it, then why get one?

But now you say you don't live there anymore so it's all moot.

If you grew up around Porsches, then you know what you're getting into. You've driven them and understand their unique driving dynamics (btw, there are a lot of C4S models in SoCal. It's not simply about driving in the wet.) Therefore you have your answers plus you know inside what the game is, so just go out and get one. It's pretty simple.

Yeah, I think it's getting a bit goofy. The OP knows himself what the score is, he's not a dummy. He can answer the majority of the questions himself.

fwiw, I have a friend who is really smart and successful in his field but he asks the most basic questions all the time. It gets kind of aggravating. It's as though he doesn't trust himself or maybe he just wants to be reassured. But it's human nature to sometimes ask out loud and hope to get reassurance. I've asked questions I knew I could really best answer myself.

It's time for the OP to buy or just forget it. And I hate to see somebody over analyze something to death because then when the decision's made, and if it doesn't go 100% as planned, it will only end up as a bigger disappointment.

Quadcammer

Don't care who invented it. Its simply yet another thing that dumbs down the experience of properly driving a manual transmission vehicle. If the revs are matched, I want to be the one to have done it. To me mastering a sports car is part of the fun. If its so easy anyone can do it, it gets boring more quickly.

PSM, as long as it can be turned off, is fine, as it protects people from their bad driving. It can also be a useful tool for on track learning.

PDK is great...if all you care about is lap times at the track. Since I don't fit into that category, I will say that I have zero interest in any porsche that doesn't come equipped with a clutch pedal.

ABS is fine.

PS I could live without. Then again, a 997 is more like a GT car than a pure sports car, so clearly PS is necessary in this day and age, especially with wide front tires. My 993TT has pretty heavy steering as is, so I wouldn't mind ditching the PS.