tpenta

I once took a ride in my boss's new Prius. He was proud of having just sold his AMG Mercedes to replace it with a Prius and was trying to convince me of how great the decision was.

The whole time I kept thinking "man, it's time for me to move on."

Anyway, cars have problems. Remember the Ford Pinto?

We are all going to die one way or another. Frankly, if I had a choice between going from colon cancer versus driving off the highway at 120mph, I would probably go the Lexus way!

Also, if these incidents create a need for more awareness and new fail-safe mechanisms, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Frankly, I feel a sence of control having a 6 speed and a hand brake (or is it break?).

-T

Master Deep

Finally...about gd time.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/video-to...on-claims.html

Master Deep

Following an earlier request, Toyota has officially handed over an internal memo penned by Toyota employees to Congress. The memo – written in 2006 – details employee concerns about Toyota skimping on quality and safety measures in order to boost production and overall profitability.

Although the memo doesn’t appear to have any direct links to Toyota’s recent unintended acceleration woes, it does indicate a history of ignoring safety problems at Toyota. “If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety,” Rep. Ed Towns said is a letter to Toyota North American head Yoshimi Inaba.

Addressed to then Toyota president Katsuaki Watanabe, the memo raises a number of employee concerns, particularly related to Toyota’s cost-cutting measures affecting the overall quality and safety of its vehicles. “We fear that under the name of competition in the marketplace Toyota may have taken lightly the process needed to produce safe vehicles,” the memo reads.
Employees also criticized Toyota’s use of temporary employees in the memo. “Temporary workers now represent 39.4 percent of the work force (12,168 workers as of 2004). It’s not an exaggeration to say that we have put amateurs in charge of the factory.”

Showing the seriousness of the concerns, employees wrote; “the future existence of the company will be threatened by this grave problem.”

-From LLN also

texas911

So the crux of the memo was the Toyota union workers were in fear of their jobs because of the use of non-union temporary workforce. And they used as an excuse that the "amateurs" were a danger to safety and quality. Riiiight.

alexb76

Here's another proof news organizations are making stuff up as they go along this story

http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...entid=23621295

aka_Sven

Below is a link to an interesting op-ed in today's NY Times, by an expert in the field, suggesting that, in many instances, operator error may be the cause of the unintended acceleration itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/op...l?pagewanted=1

simsgw

I was at Wright-Patterson when we fielded the F-16, which was the first production fighter to use fly-by-wire if memory serves. I was not in that SPO, but... (uh SPO-Special Project Office which is how the Air Force organizes development of line items like new fighters, bombers or spacecraft.) Anyway, I was an outsider briefing the commander of that SPO on our plans for computer networking the command, and in a spare moment, he told me about the flap they were going through that month. A new version of the sixteen had been deployed a few months previously and earlier that week the software crashed on one. Since the aircraft is not stable without computer assistance the pilot lost control as well and from a few hundred feet on a low-altitude penetration run, he had no time to recover.

You're right. Validating the interaction of computer control systems with manual ones is a very difficult process. On missiles and spacecraft, we use specialists that are at once the most qualified in their field and also the most ****. They explore every conceivable combination of events to look for error. And still we lost a pilot that day. Somehow I doubt Toyota and the other car manufacturers are that thorough, so I can only hope they keep to the principle of human override always taking precedence.

As for that silliness about runaway cars, a stuck accelerator is one of the more trivial things to deal with. When I was teenager, high schools offered drivers training classes that let you get your license six months earlier than other kids. Handling a stuck accelerator was one of the half dozen "unusual situations" we practiced. The cars had dual controls, so the instructor just jammed down on his throttle and expected you to handle it in the drivers seat. We also had to drive the right side into deep sand on shoulders, spin the car on a wet parking lot, and all the other usual 'unusual' situations before begin passed. Incidentally, we had no rev-limiters so putting the car in neutral was a recipe for trashing the engine and since it happened pretty often in those days, we were taught the correct way. In one syllable words: "To stop, put on brake." Have they somehow failed to mention that these days? (Yes. It works even with a modern powerful car like ours. At normal road speeds at least. The torque a disk brake exerts is better than any engine a puzzled twit is going to have in their car. For those of us with seriously powerful cars, getting a 911 down from 150 mph on the front straight at Willow before it goes off turn one might take a little extra skill if the throttle stuck, but you're supposed to have those extra skills before you drive cars that way. Just saying.)

I have heard that not many states sanction that basic training for teenagers anymore. Pity.

Gary

Minok

No, I'm actually hoping they speed out of control, then I can speed up a bit as the cops will all be trying to help that poor addle Prius driver come to a stop.

To bad the top speed of the thing is only 90, which we can hit in 3rd gear.

ADias

I am proud about the overall consensus about this issue. This is indeed a sham. Toyota (and next others) will have to brace for more obfuscation and further attacks. This is but one example of the rampant corruption and opportunism assaulting a generally ignorant and thoughtless society.

brendo

minok, get your facts right! they go at least 100

the shame of this whole thing is that al gore III could have used the stuck accelerator excuse to get out of this and be a hero. "he controlled the car for so long at those speeds that he had time to fire up a blunt and take a percocet in anticipation of an accident."

THPorsche

by the way, did the driver use handfree when he called 911?

alexb76

WOW! When and where was that kind of training being done? I totally would LOVE TO SEE that kind of driving training to be mandatory. There's no such thing here where I live, or anywhere in North America that I know of!

When I was in Denmark studying, I remember it took more than a year to get a drivers license, as you had to not only pass a written test, but also street driving test, highway, rain/wet handling, AND snow driving (all driving a manual car)... before you could get a license! No wonder European are better drivers in general.

alexb76

Unfortunately, people here do not represent a true reflection of the general North American public.

rpalomo

okay i owned a 2007 lexus es 350 and it happened to me four times- the mat would get stuck and the pedal would not come back up- ever since it happened the first time all i did was put my foot under the pedal and lift it...worked everytime ...sold it about 8 months ago and now theres a recall...always thought it was my fault for not fixing the mat properly

simsgw

Newport Beach, California in the fifties, and it did take quite a few hours of training. In-car sessions when the other kids were at lunch hour, and a normal one-hour class every day all week. I can't remember how many days we got behind the wheel, but I do remember looking forward to it. They didn't have enough cars to get us all into one in the same hour or two. Let's see... Three kids and one instructor to each car. That I remember. And two cars and two sessions (early lunch and late lunch because the cafeteria couldn't handle us all at once) so twelve kids each day. Figure thirty kids in the class, so they got us behind the wheel only twice a week I suppose. Just figuring. Can't swear I remember that far back. I do remember that thirty was a smallish class size because people my age laugh and tell jokes when the California schools ask for more money to reduce the outrageous class sizes of 24 or... or even 25!

Probably most of the state did it about that way, because Californians were sinfully proud of having the best drivers in the country in those days, policies were created to maintain that superiority, and law enforcement was slanted toward that point of view. Anyone in a crosswalk was sacrosanct and penalties were severe for hitting such a pedestrian, even if they walked against the light. Most pedestrians were old people and children you see, so we showed consideration. On the other hand, jaywalkers were fair game. You weren't congratulated for hitting one. Not exactly. But if one such was hit between lights and with clearly no crosswalk, the driver didn't even get a ticket. After all, a jaywalker was an anarchist at least and quite possibly a Communist, right? Probably jumped out from between cars just to harass an honest citizen. Such attitudes stick with us. When we heard that some famous fellow got killed jaywalking... Jerry Garcia? Maybe. Anyway, Cindy and I both said the same thing: "Probably deserved it. Too damn lazy to find a crosswalk. Hope they don't publish the name of that poor driver."

Local dealers would donate the cars with controls duplicated on both sides. School provided the teachers. Usually from the Physical Education department -- coaches that is -- but not always, and I do remember they weren't the wimpy sorts that worry about 'rash' movements and 'risky' steering. They really wanted us to learn how to drive in the real world. Don't know where they got their lesson plans, but even for a kid who'd been driving since eight years old I found it interesting and full of new skills I'd never practiced on tractors or Grandpa's Buick.

We never did the snow thing, but then I don't believe Newport Beach has ever had any snow. Of course, it being California, we did get discussion of snow driving because snow is never more than a half day's drive away at the right times of year. But only discussion, with comparisons to driving in the wet pavement exercise. Come to think of it, when I was first stationed in a snow state, I knew how to put on chains, so they must have included a practical exercise in that. I know we had to change a tire at least once, so that would make sense. Actually, I mean change a wheel though we called it "changing a flat tire." Very few people really changed tires even then. Tire irons were becoming rare. I did change tires when I worked in a gas station garage, and it is a hell of a lot more work than changing a wheel, as we all know. Even girls had to fix a flat at least once, unless they had a note from home. We were a very enlightened state.

And yes. Always a manual. If you wanted a license earlier than all the schmucks you had to learn how to use a clutch, how to start on hills, and all that. Even sixty years ago some twits would complain about the school not letting the dealers provide automatics. "Get modern, you old fogies. By the sixties, everyone will be using automatics. Why should my poor child have to use his[her] left leg?"

The answer was obvious to most people of course. "Someone who can drive a manual transmission can drive anything, but someone who only learns an automatic is less than half a driver. What happens if Susie has to drive a rental car? Hmmm? What if little Johnnie can't afford an automatic when he leaves home?" (Automatics were expensive still. About like the PDK option on a current Porsche.) Those answering were the same people asking for the state to require proficiency with a manual before granting the license. I don't know if they ever succeeded, but if so, it was temporary, because they have been outnumbered by the auto-twits for at least forty years, who were right about one thing at least. By the sixties, all the rental cars were equipped with automatics, because many kids waited the extra six months for their license to avoid the frightening manual transmissions of drivers training. Hertz wanted to rent cars to them as well as the real drivers.

Gary, somehow reminded of Grandpa's stories of the horse-drawn freight wagons of World War I; my stepfather's experience wrangling a twenty-mule team in his youth; Cindy's grandmother talking about her mother coming west in a covered wagon; and suddenly feeling very very displaced in time. Is that Buck Rogers peering in at the dashboard of my 911S rocketship?