OT: Runaway Prius news today...
#61
I once took a ride in my boss's new Prius. He was proud of having just sold his AMG Mercedes to replace it with a Prius and was trying to convince me of how great the decision was.
The whole time I kept thinking "man, it's time for me to move on."
Anyway, cars have problems. Remember the Ford Pinto?
We are all going to die one way or another. Frankly, if I had a choice between going from colon cancer versus driving off the highway at 120mph, I would probably go the Lexus way!
Also, if these incidents create a need for more awareness and new fail-safe mechanisms, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Frankly, I feel a sence of control having a 6 speed and a hand brake (or is it break?).
-T
The whole time I kept thinking "man, it's time for me to move on."
Anyway, cars have problems. Remember the Ford Pinto?
We are all going to die one way or another. Frankly, if I had a choice between going from colon cancer versus driving off the highway at 120mph, I would probably go the Lexus way!
Also, if these incidents create a need for more awareness and new fail-safe mechanisms, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Frankly, I feel a sence of control having a 6 speed and a hand brake (or is it break?).
-T
#63
Rennlist Member
Following an earlier request, Toyota has officially handed over an internal memo penned by Toyota employees to Congress. The memo – written in 2006 – details employee concerns about Toyota skimping on quality and safety measures in order to boost production and overall profitability.
Although the memo doesn’t appear to have any direct links to Toyota’s recent unintended acceleration woes, it does indicate a history of ignoring safety problems at Toyota. “If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety,” Rep. Ed Towns said is a letter to Toyota North American head Yoshimi Inaba.
Addressed to then Toyota president Katsuaki Watanabe, the memo raises a number of employee concerns, particularly related to Toyota’s cost-cutting measures affecting the overall quality and safety of its vehicles. “We fear that under the name of competition in the marketplace Toyota may have taken lightly the process needed to produce safe vehicles,” the memo reads.
Employees also criticized Toyota’s use of temporary employees in the memo. “Temporary workers now represent 39.4 percent of the work force (12,168 workers as of 2004). It’s not an exaggeration to say that we have put amateurs in charge of the factory.”
Showing the seriousness of the concerns, employees wrote; “the future existence of the company will be threatened by this grave problem.”
-From LLN also
Although the memo doesn’t appear to have any direct links to Toyota’s recent unintended acceleration woes, it does indicate a history of ignoring safety problems at Toyota. “If senior Toyota officials ignored important safety concerns raised by their own employees, it calls into question Toyota’s corporate priorities and its commitment to safety,” Rep. Ed Towns said is a letter to Toyota North American head Yoshimi Inaba.
Addressed to then Toyota president Katsuaki Watanabe, the memo raises a number of employee concerns, particularly related to Toyota’s cost-cutting measures affecting the overall quality and safety of its vehicles. “We fear that under the name of competition in the marketplace Toyota may have taken lightly the process needed to produce safe vehicles,” the memo reads.
Employees also criticized Toyota’s use of temporary employees in the memo. “Temporary workers now represent 39.4 percent of the work force (12,168 workers as of 2004). It’s not an exaggeration to say that we have put amateurs in charge of the factory.”
Showing the seriousness of the concerns, employees wrote; “the future existence of the company will be threatened by this grave problem.”
-From LLN also
#64
Race Car
So the crux of the memo was the Toyota union workers were in fear of their jobs because of the use of non-union temporary workforce. And they used as an excuse that the "amateurs" were a danger to safety and quality. Riiiight.
#65
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
ABC admits tinkering with Toyota report
Here's another proof news organizations are making stuff up as they go along this story
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...entid=23621295
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/c...entid=23621295
Briefly during the drive, ABC cut to a picture of a tachometer with the needle zooming forward. The impression was that the tachometer was documenting the ride Ross was taking. Instead, that picture was taken from a separate instance where a short-circuit was induced in a parked car.
#66
Below is a link to an interesting op-ed in today's NY Times, by an expert in the field, suggesting that, in many instances, operator error may be the cause of the unintended acceleration itself.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/op...l?pagewanted=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/op...l?pagewanted=1
#67
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As an aviation buff I read an article some time ago on the Falcon 7X business jet, the first full fly by wire (per Dassault). The aircraft has several redundant flight computers, and various redundancy systems as the pilot's movement of the stick translate into computer commands that move flight surfaces. I can only imagine validating such a complex aircraft must be extremely intensive.
You're right. Validating the interaction of computer control systems with manual ones is a very difficult process. On missiles and spacecraft, we use specialists that are at once the most qualified in their field and also the most ****. They explore every conceivable combination of events to look for error. And still we lost a pilot that day. Somehow I doubt Toyota and the other car manufacturers are that thorough, so I can only hope they keep to the principle of human override always taking precedence.
As for that silliness about runaway cars, a stuck accelerator is one of the more trivial things to deal with. When I was teenager, high schools offered drivers training classes that let you get your license six months earlier than other kids. Handling a stuck accelerator was one of the half dozen "unusual situations" we practiced. The cars had dual controls, so the instructor just jammed down on his throttle and expected you to handle it in the drivers seat. We also had to drive the right side into deep sand on shoulders, spin the car on a wet parking lot, and all the other usual 'unusual' situations before begin passed. Incidentally, we had no rev-limiters so putting the car in neutral was a recipe for trashing the engine and since it happened pretty often in those days, we were taught the correct way. In one syllable words: "To stop, put on brake." Have they somehow failed to mention that these days? (Yes. It works even with a modern powerful car like ours. At normal road speeds at least. The torque a disk brake exerts is better than any engine a puzzled twit is going to have in their car. For those of us with seriously powerful cars, getting a 911 down from 150 mph on the front straight at Willow before it goes off turn one might take a little extra skill if the throttle stuck, but you're supposed to have those extra skills before you drive cars that way. Just saying.)
I have heard that not many states sanction that basic training for teenagers anymore. Pity.
Gary
#68
Drifting
To bad the top speed of the thing is only 90, which we can hit in 3rd gear.
#69
Nordschleife Master
I am proud about the overall consensus about this issue. This is indeed a sham. Toyota (and next others) will have to brace for more obfuscation and further attacks. This is but one example of the rampant corruption and opportunism assaulting a generally ignorant and thoughtless society.
#70
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LAGUNA NIGUEL, Calif. - Al Gore’s son was arrested early Wednesday on suspicion of possessing marijuana and prescription drugs after deputies pulled him over for speeding, authorities said.
Al Gore III, 24, was driving a blue Toyota Prius about 100 mph on the San Diego Freeway when he was pulled over at about 2:15 a.m., Sheriff’s Department spokesman Jim Amormino said.
Al Gore III, 24, was driving a blue Toyota Prius about 100 mph on the San Diego Freeway when he was pulled over at about 2:15 a.m., Sheriff’s Department spokesman Jim Amormino said.
#72
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Thread Starter
When I was teenager, high schools offered drivers training classes that let you get your license six months earlier than other kids. Handling a stuck accelerator was one of the half dozen "unusual situations" we practiced. The cars had dual controls, so the instructor just jammed down on his throttle and expected you to handle it in the drivers seat. We also had to drive the right side into deep sand on shoulders, spin the car on a wet parking lot, and all the other usual 'unusual' situations before begin passed. Incidentally, we had no rev-limiters so putting the car in neutral was a recipe for trashing the engine and since it happened pretty often in those days, we were taught the correct way. In one syllable words: "To stop, put on brake." Have they somehow failed to mention that these days?
I have heard that not many states sanction that basic training for teenagers anymore. Pity.
Gary
I have heard that not many states sanction that basic training for teenagers anymore. Pity.
Gary
When I was in Denmark studying, I remember it took more than a year to get a drivers license, as you had to not only pass a written test, but also street driving test, highway, rain/wet handling, AND snow driving (all driving a manual car)... before you could get a license! No wonder European are better drivers in general.
#73
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Thread Starter
I am proud about the overall consensus about this issue. This is indeed a sham. Toyota (and next others) will have to brace for more obfuscation and further attacks. This is but one example of the rampant corruption and opportunism assaulting a generally ignorant and thoughtless society.
#74
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okay i owned a 2007 lexus es 350 and it happened to me four times- the mat would get stuck and the pedal would not come back up- ever since it happened the first time all i did was put my foot under the pedal and lift it...worked everytime ...sold it about 8 months ago and now theres a recall...always thought it was my fault for not fixing the mat properly
#75
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WOW! When and where was that kind of training being done? I totally would LOVE TO SEE that kind of driving training to be mandatory. There's no such thing here where I live, or anywhere in North America that I know of!
When I was in Denmark studying, I remember it took more than a year to get a drivers license, as you had to not only pass a written test, but also street driving test, highway, rain/wet handling, AND snow driving (all driving a manual car)... before you could get a license! No wonder European are better drivers in general.
When I was in Denmark studying, I remember it took more than a year to get a drivers license, as you had to not only pass a written test, but also street driving test, highway, rain/wet handling, AND snow driving (all driving a manual car)... before you could get a license! No wonder European are better drivers in general.
Probably most of the state did it about that way, because Californians were sinfully proud of having the best drivers in the country in those days, policies were created to maintain that superiority, and law enforcement was slanted toward that point of view. Anyone in a crosswalk was sacrosanct and penalties were severe for hitting such a pedestrian, even if they walked against the light. Most pedestrians were old people and children you see, so we showed consideration. On the other hand, jaywalkers were fair game. You weren't congratulated for hitting one. Not exactly. But if one such was hit between lights and with clearly no crosswalk, the driver didn't even get a ticket. After all, a jaywalker was an anarchist at least and quite possibly a Communist, right? Probably jumped out from between cars just to harass an honest citizen. Such attitudes stick with us. When we heard that some famous fellow got killed jaywalking... Jerry Garcia? Maybe. Anyway, Cindy and I both said the same thing: "Probably deserved it. Too damn lazy to find a crosswalk. Hope they don't publish the name of that poor driver."
Local dealers would donate the cars with controls duplicated on both sides. School provided the teachers. Usually from the Physical Education department -- coaches that is -- but not always, and I do remember they weren't the wimpy sorts that worry about 'rash' movements and 'risky' steering. They really wanted us to learn how to drive in the real world. Don't know where they got their lesson plans, but even for a kid who'd been driving since eight years old I found it interesting and full of new skills I'd never practiced on tractors or Grandpa's Buick.
We never did the snow thing, but then I don't believe Newport Beach has ever had any snow. Of course, it being California, we did get discussion of snow driving because snow is never more than a half day's drive away at the right times of year. But only discussion, with comparisons to driving in the wet pavement exercise. Come to think of it, when I was first stationed in a snow state, I knew how to put on chains, so they must have included a practical exercise in that. I know we had to change a tire at least once, so that would make sense. Actually, I mean change a wheel though we called it "changing a flat tire." Very few people really changed tires even then. Tire irons were becoming rare. I did change tires when I worked in a gas station garage, and it is a hell of a lot more work than changing a wheel, as we all know. Even girls had to fix a flat at least once, unless they had a note from home. We were a very enlightened state.
And yes. Always a manual. If you wanted a license earlier than all the schmucks you had to learn how to use a clutch, how to start on hills, and all that. Even sixty years ago some twits would complain about the school not letting the dealers provide automatics. "Get modern, you old fogies. By the sixties, everyone will be using automatics. Why should my poor child have to use his[her] left leg?"
The answer was obvious to most people of course. "Someone who can drive a manual transmission can drive anything, but someone who only learns an automatic is less than half a driver. What happens if Susie has to drive a rental car? Hmmm? What if little Johnnie can't afford an automatic when he leaves home?" (Automatics were expensive still. About like the PDK option on a current Porsche.) Those answering were the same people asking for the state to require proficiency with a manual before granting the license. I don't know if they ever succeeded, but if so, it was temporary, because they have been outnumbered by the auto-twits for at least forty years, who were right about one thing at least. By the sixties, all the rental cars were equipped with automatics, because many kids waited the extra six months for their license to avoid the frightening manual transmissions of drivers training. Hertz wanted to rent cars to them as well as the real drivers.
Gary, somehow reminded of Grandpa's stories of the horse-drawn freight wagons of World War I; my stepfather's experience wrangling a twenty-mule team in his youth; Cindy's grandmother talking about her mother coming west in a covered wagon; and suddenly feeling very very displaced in time. Is that Buck Rogers peering in at the dashboard of my 911S rocketship?