OcBen Erased ?
#76
Poseur
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It's my belief that the authorities who elected to delete all of Ben's postings reacted too quickly, not realizing the impact of their actions. It also lends one to consider that they could (and do) make other mistakes in the administration of this site.
Since this is not a democracy, but it is a capitalist operation, we react in kind in a capitalist manner--we leave the site en masse to another site. When their income dries up they will perhaps reconsider their own rush to judge.
We shall all hang together, or be hung separately.
Since this is not a democracy, but it is a capitalist operation, we react in kind in a capitalist manner--we leave the site en masse to another site. When their income dries up they will perhaps reconsider their own rush to judge.
We shall all hang together, or be hung separately.
#77
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It's my belief that the authorities who elected to delete all of Ben's postings reacted too quickly, not realizing the impact of their actions. It also lends one to consider that they could (and do) make other mistakes in the administration of this site.
Since this is not a democracy, but it is a capitalist operation, we react in kind in a capitalist manner--we leave the site en masse to another site. When their income dries up they will perhaps reconsider their own rush to judge. We shall all hang together, or be hung separately.
Since this is not a democracy, but it is a capitalist operation, we react in kind in a capitalist manner--we leave the site en masse to another site. When their income dries up they will perhaps reconsider their own rush to judge. We shall all hang together, or be hung separately.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
#78
The sad part is , reactionary mods aside, this is a great place.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
#79
Team Owner
The sad part is , reactionary mods aside, this is a great place.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
#81
Nordschleife Master
The sad part is , reactionary mods aside, this is a great place.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
Before you trot over to RuetterJerks, take a good look.
Their idea of sport over there is to put a guy they don't like on ignore ( so he can't even respond) and then start a thread or two bashing him.
The mods think it's a hoot as the cowards bash away.
That site seems to be filled with the same people who used to create conflicts on this site...
Given the emotions raised on this thread, I wonder if the mods, once they conclude their threads' review, could provide some insight into their reasons. I do not like censorship either, but I can see reasons for banning members, reasons which do not violate individual rights, but instead protect other members' rights.
#82
#83
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The reality is, if you are part of the "club" there are no rules.
If you fall into the "other " category.... well, here we are.
I think a good show of faith on the part of the mods would be to reinstate both Ben and his posts.
If you fall into the "other " category.... well, here we are.
I think a good show of faith on the part of the mods would be to reinstate both Ben and his posts.
#84
Range Master
Pepsie Lite
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Pepsie Lite
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Very true. Owners have the right to decide who's in their place of business. They can handle problems anyway they want as long as no laws are broken. Privately owned business is private.
I guess all of this is very different from our not-exactly-innocent expectations of the Chinese Government.
Okay, I'll shut up now. I tried to do my good deed for the day.
I guess all of this is very different from our not-exactly-innocent expectations of the Chinese Government.
Okay, I'll shut up now. I tried to do my good deed for the day.
#86
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
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Needs More Cowbell
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That is your right.
The rules I believe you refer to are covered under the Rennlist Terms of Service and the Rennlist Charter.
I believe, in this case, the principles contained in the aforementioned documents have been followed and respected.
There are (or should be) very specific rules for behavior in a forum. If someone violates those rules significantly, banning from the forum is the right response. It is a public forum after all (ie anyone can sign up and get access).
As such, for the forum rules to mean anything and not be some secret-police action, at a very minimum, it should certainly be public knowledge about which forum rule was violated by someone to get them banned. Exposing the post that caused the incident isn't necessary, but you at least owe us the reason for the ban.
Its a public forum, not medical records where are dealing with here.
As such, for the forum rules to mean anything and not be some secret-police action, at a very minimum, it should certainly be public knowledge about which forum rule was violated by someone to get them banned. Exposing the post that caused the incident isn't necessary, but you at least owe us the reason for the ban.
Its a public forum, not medical records where are dealing with here.
I believe, in this case, the principles contained in the aforementioned documents have been followed and respected.
#87
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I have always maintained an "open PM Inbox" policy...anyone who sends a PM (on any topic) will receive a reply and that dialog will continue as long as they wish.
It is up to you whether you decide to stay, that is a personal decision. I don't see a need to start an "en masse" exodus movement.
#88
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
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Needs More Cowbell
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I view it as paying for something horrible I must have done in a previous life.
Only when you have a "good day". On the brighter side, you do get to deal with interesting spammers...
Thank you...now you better run before the angry crowd with pitchforks says you're a witch and tries to burn you at the stake....save yourself while you still have a chance.
#89
Rennlist Member
Continued speculation about what originally happened, and the reaction to it are not creating much goodwill for this site.
The lack of an explanation by management/moderators is making it worse.
The lack of an explanation by management/moderators is making it worse.
#90
Race Director
This thread seems primarily to be founded on assumption and rumor. It seems clear that no one really knows what OCBen did or didn't do that caused him to be banned. An argument could be made that regardless of what he did to be banned, his previous postings shouldn't have been deleted, but that argument too would be based on assumption since the facts are not known.
I've seen some very reasonable posts in this thread which IMO any rational person should be willing to accept as making sense, followed immediately by a reactionary argument where the next poster clearly has not read, much less absorbed, what was just written. It's not as if this is anything new; it's a microcosm of what passes for political discourse in this country today. Ideology and passion trumps fact and common sense, and I'd much rather listen to what I have to say than listen to you. It's why we are unable to get traction on any of our problems.
Personally, I think that the comparisons here to China, Google, and censorship are misplaced. The basic issue isn't suppression of the public's right to know, it is simply a requirement that users of a private business site abide by certain rules of common courtesy established by the site's owners. I'm pretty sure making threats and personal attacks, for example, fall outside those rules. If you want more of an open "wild west" kind of forum, it is your prerogative to go and find one. It might have some advantages, but I think the negatives would far outweigh them.
I for one find it difficult to believe that the moderators just decided out of the blue to single out a forum member for banishment without cause, and risk the kind of backlash we are seeing here. That doesn't make sense to me. They are also being castigated for not revealing what are obviously private issues with a user/customer. That doesn't make sense to me either. No business should divulge information to the public about dealings with a customer; I wouldn't patronize them if they did.
I think it is silly to get all fired up about something based on rumor and hearsay. If that's what we're looking for, maybe we could all have a grand debate about death panels or Obama's lack of legitimate citizenship instead.
I've seen some very reasonable posts in this thread which IMO any rational person should be willing to accept as making sense, followed immediately by a reactionary argument where the next poster clearly has not read, much less absorbed, what was just written. It's not as if this is anything new; it's a microcosm of what passes for political discourse in this country today. Ideology and passion trumps fact and common sense, and I'd much rather listen to what I have to say than listen to you. It's why we are unable to get traction on any of our problems.
Personally, I think that the comparisons here to China, Google, and censorship are misplaced. The basic issue isn't suppression of the public's right to know, it is simply a requirement that users of a private business site abide by certain rules of common courtesy established by the site's owners. I'm pretty sure making threats and personal attacks, for example, fall outside those rules. If you want more of an open "wild west" kind of forum, it is your prerogative to go and find one. It might have some advantages, but I think the negatives would far outweigh them.
I for one find it difficult to believe that the moderators just decided out of the blue to single out a forum member for banishment without cause, and risk the kind of backlash we are seeing here. That doesn't make sense to me. They are also being castigated for not revealing what are obviously private issues with a user/customer. That doesn't make sense to me either. No business should divulge information to the public about dealings with a customer; I wouldn't patronize them if they did.
I think it is silly to get all fired up about something based on rumor and hearsay. If that's what we're looking for, maybe we could all have a grand debate about death panels or Obama's lack of legitimate citizenship instead.