RonnieTheC

My big complaint with Porsche (both the dealership and Porsche North America) was their attitude towards me and my problem. They told me that I should have known about this when I bought the car because it is stated on page 288 of the owners manual that 1.6 quarts every 622 miles is acceptable usage. I then told them that I was not given the owners manual until after the paperwork on the car was completed and the car was being delivered, and even if I was given the owners manual prior to paying for the car, I would not have sat in the dealership and read a 300 page manual! Had they told me prior to buying the car that Porsches consume a great deal more oil than normal, I would have passed on the car. Their attitude with my complaint was "too bad".

And yes, I have owned British and italian cars including 2 Ferraris. I have owned over 40 cars...you name it and i have probably owned it. And no car ever came close to using a quart of oil every 400 to 500 miles. That being said, yes, i do think that any car that used oild like my 2009 Porsche is way out of the norm. Some people don't care about that, and that is fine. But I do. If I am going to buy a car that stickers for $109,000.00 it damn well better be engineered the way I think it should be, or, if not, I should be informed of any quirks prior to ownership. Just like when I bought my Ferrari F430 spider with a F1 tranny. I was informed prior to ownership about the quirks of driving a F1 tranny in reverse up a hill. I hope you get my point.

DumeMan

OK, I will defend Porsche for not in any way suggesting that I should buzz off over the oil issue. They are looking into it tomorrow when it goes in for routine service (one year). Interesting that at my dealer's "clinic" a few months ago, a senior tech acknowledged this is an issue for a reasonably large number of 977-2 engines, they are aware of it, etc.

He said that for owners that are very concerned, one solution is to run the car with a non-synthetic oil for a couple of thousand miles to make the valve seals and rings seat better as synthetics really prolong engine break-in for many thousands of miles because they are so good at lubricating. When the consumption comes down switch back to synthetic.

Any mechanics out there with a theory on this? I rebuilt a lot of engines in my youth, and this just seems like a way to shorten the life of my engine, no?

Lubrecon

That is a croc of crap about the use of synthetic vs mineral oil. It just goes to illustrate that no one has a handle on this problem, and Porsche is remiss in calling oil consumption of this quantity normal.

ADias

Actually... they are correct. These engines (not only 9A1) take many miles to break-in and more so with synthetics. How they are driven on a daily basis also makes a difference.

Lubrecon

Wrong, the use of synthetics do not affect or delay cylinder and ring seating, or wear in, it is simply a myth. If that were so, Vipers, Cadillacs, Corvettes, Mercedes, and any other car that uses Mobil 1, or other "synthetics" for initial fill would be seeing similar oil high oil consumption as some Porsche engines are, and that is not happening. The mineral oil vs "synthetic" break in thing is simply an old wives tale.

Quadcammer

Why do you care? Aside from fouling your cats and 02 sensors, and getting carbon build up all of your cylinders, its simply not correct.

There is absolutely nothing, and I mean nothing about the M97 or 9A1 that requires big ring gaps or other loose tolerances in the heads. Its power output is good, but not exemplary, it doesn't run very hot, it doesn't rev real high, its not forced induction etc. Its a pretty run of the mill engine. The only feature that would cause it to have marginally higher oil consumption is the boxer layout.

Now if every 997 burned a bunch of oil, you could maybe argue its part of the design...but they don't. Given the price you pay for these cars, you would think that porsche would take care of the few customers that get oil burners. Think about what porsche is saying. They are claiming that burning 32oz of oil every 388 miles is acceptable. Thats nearly an ounce of oil every 10 miles. That is simply wrong, and they are just covering their *** to keep their profit margins up.

You think the engineers are happy with that level of oil consumption? Its the god damn lawyers, actuaries, and bean counters that come up with these "acceptable limits". If it weren't for the cats, a car that burned a quart every 400 miles would smoke like a freight train.

Not to mention, Porsche permits the highest oil burning as acceptable from any manufacturer I've seen. Most are at 1 qt per 1k miles, which imho is still too high.

Regardless of what the manufacturer says publicly, burning 1 quart in 400 or 600, or even 1000 miles is not right, and is not within design tolerances. when you produce xx,xxx engines, some will be screwed up. But its up to the company to make it right, and porsche hasn't.

RonnieTheC

BRAVO and thank you for your 2 very informative and completely logical posts. When I had my oil consumption problems with my 2009, I asked Porsche if they would be willing to either tear my engine apart to see if there was an internal problem or simply replace my engine, and they said no. I have a friend who is one of 26 Master Mechanics for Ferrari in North America. When it comes to engines he is brilliant, which you have to be to achieve the level of Master Mechanic for Ferrari. I told him about my oil consumption problem and he said that he has never experienced anything like that with Ferrari or Maserati, and has never heard of anything like that to be normal with ANY modern day car. I have owned 2 Ferraris and never had an oil comsumption problem, and, if i had, Ferrari would have fixed the problem.

DumeMan

Thank you Quadcammer and Lubrecon. I completely agree with you guys. I have owned and restored more sports cars than I can count (including 8 Porsches, 6 of which were 911's) from Jags and Triumphs (notorious for oil consumption no matter how well assembled) and have never imagined 600 miles a quart acceptable on a $100K+ car, no matter how many HP/Litre or other attributes.

Well, my car is now on the "official" monitoring program with Porsche, we'll see where it goes...

javocat

I concur with Dumeman, Quadcammer, and others who think the oil consumption and the standard are unacceptable. Question for Dumeman: How did you become part pf the "official" watch program at Porsche? I sent a letter to Porsche North America, and all I got was a telephonic massage from a customer relations rep.

DumeMan

Not sure javocat. I have bought three new Porsches from this dealer over the past 11 years. Maybe they are just humoring me, but they seem to be taking it seriously, and I have had nothing but good experiences with Porsche on warranty issues, even well beyond expiration.

Hopefully they will do so again, or maybe the problem will cure itself with more miles (I will be happy with anything less than 2000 miles a quart).

DumeMan

P.S. After all this oil consumption discussion, I have to say this is the most awesome car I have ever had the pleasure to own. How the Weissach gnomes created a rear engine car that handles like this, the amazing torque and tractability of the engine, the best six-speed on the planet, the PASM, etc. are beyond me.

If I have to live with pouring a quart in it every 600 miles, so be it, but it doesn't seem right...

Minok

So how many car make-models with horizontally opposed cylinders have such variance in oil consumption?

Much of it is probably tied to the basic engine design and results in a lot of variance from engine to engine. Some folks have little to no consumption others have lots. I've spoken to folks that have owned 911's of older generations and some were used to the cars consuming more oil.

Price is not related to oil consumption. If you want to take a position of : "If I pay $100k for a car I expect it do have consumption figures that I expect", then don't buy the car or build your own car.

Quadcammer

basically only subaru makes a boxer engine today, and their oil consumption has never been outrageous.

I'd argue that since not all 911s burn a lot of oil, it can not be tied to engine design. While boxer motors do tend to puddle a little oil on the lower end of their cylinders, this is incredibly minor and should only occur when the car has been sitting for a while.

I think production tolerances being widened up is where the problem really is.

I kind of agree on price, but not in the way you'd expect. I don't expect ANY modern automobile, from an $8,000 kia to a $400,000 Lamborghini to burn any appreciable amount of oil. Sure, a high performance car might burn a bit more, to the tune of lets say 1 quart per 2k or 3k miles...but if any car I bought went through a quart of oil in 388 miles and the manufacturer said all was well, i'd drive it into the showroom floor and leave it there for them.

That said, when you buy a premium vehicle with a price tag of $100k, you expect better quality control, better engine manufacturing, and a certain degree of robustness.

RonnieTheC

Thank you!