B-Line

There are lots of cars out there that are, roomier, faster, lighter, cheaper even than a 993. Does that make them better? Obviously that's a subjective opinion. However, the vast majority of 997 owners and 993 owners do agree with me. Actually, the vast majority of 911 owners (except 996 owners, agree with me.) I think it's wonderful that the 996 owners love there cars. But it is widely agreed that the 996 911 lost a lot of "soul" which was reintroduced in the 997.
And, considering the entire front of the 996 looks like a boxster. I would say that the the 996 has more in common with the boxster than it does with the 997.

I'm not trying to be an A-hole here. I am just remarking a shared feeling that has been widely discussed in this community. You can argue with me till your blue in the face how the 996 is better in every way.. And on paper, it might be. But if you can't understand why the 993 and 997 guys feel the way we do about the 996, no point trying to make you understand. Enjoy your car and don't fret about what people like me think. We are all entitled to our opinions and fortunately, there is no such thing as a wrong opinion.

B

mastiffdog

True, and there is a lot of this down talking going on the various Porsche forums. Its like all of the naysayers are invading the enthusiast's forums. I like the factual controversy, but these comparisons, i.e. Z06, Ferrari, Gallardo, 997TT threads start off innocently enough and ultimately turn into shouting matches and name calling.

For me, this is the PORSCHE forum, so I will defend all Porsches, not only because I have one but because I like 'em. I like 'em all, the 997, the Turbos, the Boxsters, you name it, I just like Porsche. And that's why I am here.

And now we have a troll who is going to bash styling changes within the Porsche models. Give me a break...

Bullet

I completely disagree and am with caf on this one, and I just traded up my 996 for a 997. This "soul" you're talking about is what exactly? Basically, the 996 was just too much of a leap forward for most to accept.

Its a common misconception to consider the 996 as having more in common with a Boxster than a 997. This concept is an extension of the outrage than 911 enthusiasts had that they initially shared the same headlights (and some other parts to save money - which has done Porsche very well by the way). Poseurs wanted their 911's to be distinct from the cheaper "entry model". However, the 996 and the 997 are very very similar cars, and much more similar than a 993 is to a 997. The only similarities between 993 and 997 are some minor cosmetics, but even cosmetically, the 997 shares more with the 996.

I'm afraid that as a 993 and 911 enthusiast, to hate the 996 but love the 997 (and I know I'm using strong words here, but to illustrate the point) just doesn't wash as far as I'm concerned. (It washes if certain cosmetics are the key, but I'd think that there is just so much more to an "enthusiast" than cosmetics)

Anyways, a little off topic . . .

B-Line

So let me see if I understand. In 1999 when the 996 was being introduced to the world. (Around the same time the home computer, world-wide web, windows 98, cell phones in every hand, satellite tv becoming common in many house holds, AOL, Email, Viagra, Wellbutrin, etc..)

The 996 was SUCH a leap forward, that most people could not accept it? What leap forward was it that was so advanced? Was it the 700 hp and 50 miles to the gallon? maybe the hybrid engine? Or was it stability management (which us real drivers turn off the minute we hit the track.) Maybe it was the new dash and "electronics" vs. the old analog tach. Or maybe it was the technology that put MP3 players into the radio or satellite radio even. Maybe it was the technology of the option of the GEN I crappy PCCB brakes.

Oh wait.. I know what it was that was such a LEAP forward.. CUPHOLDERS... Have to admit, do wish my 993 had those. Really, I do.. I hate not having cup holders..

gravedgr

If you had bothered to read the quote (you obviously did not), he said 2007.

allegretto

From the tenor of his posts that would be like putting whipped cream on sh*t.

YA911Fan

Both 996 and 997 models are too refined and antiseptic and mainstream to have much soul left. This is what happens when a product's design is deliberately changed to broaden its appeal. (relax, these are only my opinions )

Here's a non-Porsche example. Saabs used to have a lot of soul and a devoted following because Saab stubbornly clung to its own quirky way of doing things. Once GM got involved and homogenized it, a lot more Saabs were sold but the magic was gone.

OCBen

Hey, ease up on OJ. He's just here expressing his opinions without trying to be politically correct about it. Nothing new here. At least he's not here everyday being obnoxious like our own resident troll.

MHC2S

Oh yeh and 996's never drop in price. My buddy bought a 2003 996 aero kit car brand new back in '03 for 95K. He sold it last summer with just 6,600 miles on it for just 55k talk about a bath!!!!
I bought my '05 997S used with just under 6,000 miles on it for 78K. Sticker was 92K and the guy I bought it from paid 90K and owned it for just 8 months. All late model Porshes lose value every single year I don't care 996 or 977 it makes no difference.

Bullet

Wellbutrin & Viagra??


993 and 997 = great
996 = mediocre

That's how this started out.

That great 997 has (a) the cupholders (b) the added electronic to analog dials and (c) lack of MP3 player adaptability and satellite radio that you knock the mediocre 996 for.

The 996 had the basic dimensions and shape of the current 911 as we know it (both much closer to the 997 than the 993) including the more raked back windshield and overall sleeker body mouldings, a water cooled engine allowing a 20 hp increase in power yet a 0.2 L reduction in displacement from its predecessor - a very new engine for the Carrera line up that would help to allow Porsche to deliver the fantastic engines of today, and a completely redesigned interior.

The 996 is the most popular 911 of all time. But that's where"soul" starts to disappear isn't it? When something starts to become popular, it get's less cool.

Cool and soul are very subjective. When you look at this objectively, the 996 is simply better than the 993. The 997 is better than the 996 (though I still contend that the leap from 993 to 996 is greater than from 996 to 997). That's what the original poster was getting at I think.

When you look at this objectively, these anti-996 attitudes all seem to boil down to a perpetuation of the original outrage over the big changes that occurred in '98 (not '99) - changes that still largely exist in the 997 and have become acceptable (if not now celebrated) with the passage of time, and a few minor cosmetic nods to more traditional styling.

That's all I'm going to say about it 'cuz I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than I have.

Naw - there is one more thing I want to say. I think that anit-996 attitude is sometimes a kind of snobbery. That is when it's made out to be more than a simple " I just didn't like the look of the 996" and instead turned into a "the 996 lost that 911 'soul'" or "the 996 = Boxster" type of arguement.

SilverSteel

They're all great cars; sharing the same soul, no doubt. Each car exihibits technological characteristics considered almost cutting-edge at the time they were introduced. They all drive slightly differently, and I'd own all of them if I had the room and the ***** to overwhelm my wife. I don't. I have a 997 and love each of the models as they all drive so incredibly well. No one model is better than another, just different. IMHO...

ojpimpson

You are 100% right.Also. thanks ocben fro your posting:

Soulteacher

Good man. I would take any Porsche over any previous car I had. And even as recently as six years ago, any Porsche was completely out of my league. When I was younger, I would have enthusiastically sold my brother into slavery to just sit in one. They are awesome cars, and whether there are updates and new models and whatever, they remain to be awesome cars, each in their own ways.

Vancouver83LTD

hmmm.......

mooty

i dont get it.
why does it matter is there's face lift or not. just buy what you like, drive the crap out of it, and move on. life is too short to dwell on what is THE best car, best porsche blah blah. drive and have fun. if you can have fun in a F1 race car, great, if a yugo turbo lights your fire, cool.... just have fun.