Any increase with a GIAC flash?
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My car's modded with muffler bypass, cat bypass, headers, and cold air. The only thing I haven't done is the GIAC flash. If I do have it flashed, will I still have to get it tuned or it is done? Any info much appreciated.
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tagheuer
With the mod you have (muffler bypass, cat bypass, headers, and cold air) is the power increase noticeable? Can you get us some idea of how much difference is it between the stock? And is you car S or non S? also what header, CAI did you get?
With the mod you have (muffler bypass, cat bypass, headers, and cold air) is the power increase noticeable? Can you get us some idea of how much difference is it between the stock? And is you car S or non S? also what header, CAI did you get?
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We've had really strong results for an NA car on both the 997 and 997S when we've done the intake, flash and exhaust (stage 1). There are some dynos up on the EVO site or I can always send you some too. Obviously you can't expect to get the same level of HP as you can/could out of a forced induction car but and additional 25-28hp isn't half bad... Better throttle responose and even mileage too lol!
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Originally Posted by alin330
tagheuer
With the mod you have (muffler bypass, cat bypass, headers, and cold air) is the power increase noticeable? Can you get us some idea of how much difference is it between the stock? And is you car S or non S? also what header, CAI did you get?
With the mod you have (muffler bypass, cat bypass, headers, and cold air) is the power increase noticeable? Can you get us some idea of how much difference is it between the stock? And is you car S or non S? also what header, CAI did you get?
I ran my friend's modded Evo 8 MR on three different occasions. He's telling me he's getting around 350 to the wheel. Anyway, the first two times, when he was running 21 psi, headers, and titanium exhaust, we were suprisingly even up 80 then I just blew him away above that. The last time, he was running with 24psi, cat bypass, headers, titanium exhaust, and tuned, I was 1.5 carlengths behind by 120. His Evo definitely got faster. I guess the tuning on his part really helped...which begs the question, will flashing/tuning help with my mods.
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The only other thing I forgot to mention is that for some reason, the car seems to be pulling a little bit harder with the oem headers than with the fabspeed ones. Could it be that I'm losing some low end torque with the fabspeeds? Hmm...This is another question on whether tuning it will help. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to dyno'd it with the oem headers.
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I get a kick out of these topics,
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
![Confused](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
Guys, how can adult, good money earning people, believe that a 25 HP gain on a normally aspirated car can be achieved through a software upgrade only without compromising reliability and performance of the car?
Not to speak about other things like environmental issues.
To make it clear: chip tuning on normally aspirated cars is pretty much the dumbest thing anyone can do. And: if your vendor tells you that the tuning isn't detectable, IT IS DETECTABLE. Even if the dealer looks for it, he can easily find out. Not to speak about Porsche when you have a warranty issue with the engine. Guess what, they demand a printout from your motronic and guess even more: you can kiss your warranty good-bye.
The "trick" with chip tuning on normally aspirated engines is simple: usually such "tuning" comes with a sport airfilter or a modified airbox, sometimes with a sport exhaust. The louder sound (exhaust, air induction sound, etc.) already makes people believe that their car is faster than before. The software itself usually is programmed to provide more power in the upper rev band, sometimes even passing over the factory rev limiter. So you may get 20 HP more in the upper rev range, maybe even over the rev limiter but at the same time you'll loose power and especially torque in the mid and lower rev range.
There are so many possibilites using a different software, the general advise is: whatever you think, whatever the vendor tells you, don't do it. Nothing is for free in life, I always thought that at least people who can afford a 997 learned this lesson.
Regarding the X51 kit: ripoff? Well, maybe. Especially since it seems that Porsche developped this kit along with M97 engine development. But you don't get only reliable 26 HP more, you get a perfectly adapted integrated system.
And not to forget the fact, that a lot of 997 X51 engines are rumored to hit 400 HP.
But I don't want to sound like a teacher or a smarta... Do what you want with your money but what you're doing doesn't make much sense. Better sell your car and get a GT3. Or get a 997 Turbo, there are plenty possibilites to raise power by at least 40 HP without compromising reliability or the general setup of the engine. But even 911 Turbo drivers learned it the hard way that chip tuning is a possibility to increase power but although cheap, not the best one.
But of course you won't listen, right?!
Not to speak about other things like environmental issues.
To make it clear: chip tuning on normally aspirated cars is pretty much the dumbest thing anyone can do. And: if your vendor tells you that the tuning isn't detectable, IT IS DETECTABLE. Even if the dealer looks for it, he can easily find out. Not to speak about Porsche when you have a warranty issue with the engine. Guess what, they demand a printout from your motronic and guess even more: you can kiss your warranty good-bye.
The "trick" with chip tuning on normally aspirated engines is simple: usually such "tuning" comes with a sport airfilter or a modified airbox, sometimes with a sport exhaust. The louder sound (exhaust, air induction sound, etc.) already makes people believe that their car is faster than before. The software itself usually is programmed to provide more power in the upper rev band, sometimes even passing over the factory rev limiter. So you may get 20 HP more in the upper rev range, maybe even over the rev limiter but at the same time you'll loose power and especially torque in the mid and lower rev range.
There are so many possibilites using a different software, the general advise is: whatever you think, whatever the vendor tells you, don't do it. Nothing is for free in life, I always thought that at least people who can afford a 997 learned this lesson.
Regarding the X51 kit: ripoff? Well, maybe. Especially since it seems that Porsche developped this kit along with M97 engine development. But you don't get only reliable 26 HP more, you get a perfectly adapted integrated system.
And not to forget the fact, that a lot of 997 X51 engines are rumored to hit 400 HP.
But I don't want to sound like a teacher or a smarta... Do what you want with your money but what you're doing doesn't make much sense. Better sell your car and get a GT3. Or get a 997 Turbo, there are plenty possibilites to raise power by at least 40 HP without compromising reliability or the general setup of the engine. But even 911 Turbo drivers learned it the hard way that chip tuning is a possibility to increase power but although cheap, not the best one.
But of course you won't listen, right?!
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Not to knock RC because the beauty of this forum is everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this stuff but having done a lot of dynos with cars that have software, an intake and exhaust doing before's and after's for some reason the after is always better:P
And if it's such a bad thing then how come even Porsche did the very same thing for their Cayenne Turbo Power Packadge (X50-thingy-like)? They didn't change the turbos and instead did some tuning and got more power out of it
Excuse the pun but more power to them!
And if it's such a bad thing then how come even Porsche did the very same thing for their Cayenne Turbo Power Packadge (X50-thingy-like)? They didn't change the turbos and instead did some tuning and got more power out of it
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Originally Posted by MJones
I get a kick out of these topics,
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
![Confused](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
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Hi 996toomey, got ya':P I agree wholeheartedly that you can obviously get so much more out of a forced induction car and I always tell NA folks not to expect miracles but then again the dynos don't lie and you really can get slightly more power, better throttle response and so on
A lot of people have been very satisified with before and after dynos.... I always tell people if they don't notice any difference then they're welcome to have it flashed back to stock. I'd be the same way if I were a customer (and indeed I used to be one).
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Last edited by sharkster; 11-03-2005 at 10:11 PM.
#11
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Originally Posted by MJones
I get a kick out of these topics,
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
perhaps I'am just a conservative old school guy, but I don't get it, buying into the claims the aftermarket for a few HP...for what, the stop light gran prix? Impressing your buddies that you have more HP?
For the vast majority of owners (80+%), have never come close to the capabilities of the marque, flooring it on a straight line road?, what a no brainer that is.
![Confused](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
I offer up an observation from RC @ Rennteam
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
#12
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Originally Posted by Colm
When Porsche does it....you still have a warranty!
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#13
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Originally Posted by sharkster
but then again the dynos don't like
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Anyway, I agree with the above posters--for normally aspirated cars, not much point in "chipping". For forced induction cars, there are definite gains to be had; just depends on how willing you are to stress your engine.
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Originally Posted by caf
I think you meant dynos don't lie, but actually they do; quite often, in fact.
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Anyway, I agree with the above posters--for normally aspirated cars, not much point in "chipping". For forced induction cars, there are definite gains to be had; just depends on how willing you are to stress your engine.
http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Anyway, I agree with the above posters--for normally aspirated cars, not much point in "chipping". For forced induction cars, there are definite gains to be had; just depends on how willing you are to stress your engine.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#15
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Originally Posted by sharkster
LOL there I go typing too fast for my own good
OK so as far as them being the be all and end all, personally I don't agree that they are either. for my own sake, I usually go run at the drag strip and get real times, mph and weight. That's good enough for me. For most people a before and after on a dyno is something that gives them piece of mind and if used properly and done in an apples to apples comparison can actually prove to be useful.
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