It's my understanding that the 9A1 engines cannot be borescoped from the sump the way M9x engines can. This makes it harder to see early signs of borescoring.

 

I read this thread with interest, and it certainly turned out bad. A sad situation. My question is how, who picked this shop in the first place? Did I miss that in this extensive thread? Did I see a comment that Porsche dealers were called to determine who could do a bore scope and based on that, this shop was selected.? Once selected was there any other vetting, like customer ratings or business bureau reviews? I have purchased cars remotely and I call the President of the local PCA in that region and get very specific as to what car I'm looking at, where the car is located, who the seller is and what I'm looking for in a PPI. I also ask if any of his members that own the particular car I'm looking at recommend a certain shop. If I have shops already in mind, I ask about them and any knowledge they have on that shop. There was one time I did not follow my protocol, just took the word of Porsche dealers in the area and I got a poor PPI, incomplete and not high quality, but enough info to bail on the car.

 

Fair questions:


....I've got lots of PPI's under my belt and I am very thorough in my research and very experienced and purchasing Porsche locally and from afar.
Unfortunately options are little-none in San Antonio and the shop lied to me and held car ransom.

**I phoned the shop recommended above by fellow RL member deutschmick ---->"Jones Autowerks" - They are not sure they can provide photos of the Bore Scope Insp and I'm awaiting their call back to let me know.

After having a few days to think things over, I realize my anger from being lied to by the shop got to me and upset the hell out of me.
It wasn't fair to lay the car ransom on the seller of car. Lesson learned.

 

Mind boggling the cost to constantly PPI cars and churn through a car every year or so (give or take). Just makes me scratch my head… do 5 PPIs per every car purchased? Then sell a car before any negative issues would raise their head anyways?

To focus on higher risk 997.1 vs very low risk (as evidenced by the market values) 997.2s… you could eventually pay for the lower risk car with the savings. Nevermind that present condition doesn’t guarantee no future issue…

 

@groovzilla Sorry that you had to go through this.

That being said, I think you should give the seller the full cost of the PPI that was charged to him. As mentioned above several times, the seller was extremely accomadating with your requests, and took the car to the specific location where you wanted the PPI done. You and the shop had issues (and I side with you), but the seller was caught in between with the piece of equipment that has the highest value (his car). If I was the seller there is no circumstance where I would have left my car there while you and the shop were fighting it out over days.

Bottom line is that the seller paid $500 for a PPI instead of $1230, and in essense 'saved you' $730. You probably would not have bought the car with the questionable bore scope pictures and instead of paying the $500 you decided that $250 was 'fair' even though you promised to fully pay for the PPI. Not fair at all.

To me that is the risk of trying to get things done remotely. Usually it works out, but sometimes it does not.

 

Understand----> After discussing w/seller and my offer to pay the full $500, seller is happy having the comple copy of the PPI/40 pt visual inspection which he can use to market his car. Includes paint meter readings/brakes/clutch/fluids/etc and condition/functions of the various components.
.....If I decide to find another shop to do PPI on this particular 997, I will refund the $250 and get my Credit Card to shop prior to inspection. ---->With all the PPI's I've had performed, I've always given my card info to shop PRIOR to the inspection.

 

If you get a PPI done on a car you are interested in, how do you actually get the shop to hold onto the car? The owner can't get it back until after you review the PPI and then fly in to see and drive in person? Just wondering.

 

When you take any car in for service and sign that line on the work order, there are legal terms about the shop keeping possession of the car and also being able to place mechanics leins on the car if the owner doesn't pay the bill, along with storage costs after X number of days etc.

It's the owners car and he can pick it back up if he pays the bill for the work done on the car, which is exactly what happened here.

 

When purchasing a Porsche out of state (which I have done approx 25X) I will get PPI performed and then if results are positive, I fly in and view/drive car myself then have it shipped from shop or Dealership. I explain this to seller prior to locating shop.
Also, 10-15 yrs ago most Dealerships did PPI's but many have dropped it.

So I discuss with seller I need PPI and if results are positive, I don't want car driven and car is to remain at shop until picked up by shipper
- I then locate Porsche Specialist Indy shop and explain if the PPI results are POSITIVE, I will fly in and view/test drive the car myself and ask if they will hold the car for me 4-7 days maybe even 10 days until shipper picks it up.
- Usually the shop will allow it - Some shops ask a small fee and others just offer the service.

There have been a few occasions when I have had Pizza's delivered to shop for the staff as a courtesy when shop has held the car for me. I'm a nice guy and beliueve in taking care of people who take care/acomodate me.

Goose Automotive is the most unprofessional/hack shop I have ever encountered. I've never had a shop outright lie to me and hang up shop phones when I've called or had Service Manager's cell phone disconnected so I couldn't communicate with them.

 

FYI---->I spoke with Jones Autowerks - They do not provide Bore Scope Photos

 

Good to know. Thanks and best of luck!

 

groovzilla, thank you for your response, certainly you have an excellent process for buying cars remotely and you definitely have more experience with the process than I do. Such an unfortunate experience all the result of a coming up against a dishonest, deceptive and unscrupulous business. Sad and not common in the Porsche community.

 

Thinking about this from a shop's perspective (and this has nothing to do with the scenario here, Groovzilla, or anything other than the subject of PPIs) - what's keeping shops actually doing good PPIs? To me, it seems like there is not much in it for them. A small amount of work and an out of state buyer who probably won't do future business with them, and a fair amount of liability. However, as pretty much everyone knows, a good PPI is an absolute must when purchasing a car - in state and especially out of state. How do we incentivize good shops to continue to provide this service? Anecdotally, I've had a harder time getting a good PPI now than before as well, and I hope this service isn't going to become even harder to find.

 

ALL shops I've taked with who aren't doing the PPI's claim is is directly due to litigious climate. Apparently many customers try and come back at shop for issues they find or encounter soon after the PPI is performed.
Seems to me a good "Hold Harmless" agreement as part of the PPI would solve this problem but apparently not according to these shops.
.......I spoke to PCA recommended Jones Autowerks a few days ago in hopes of getting the Bore Scope Inspection performed with photos but Bob Jones the owner and super professional/nice guy said he just can't do it because of past PPI issues.

 

My understanding is less and less mechanics and dealers are doing them as they have enough business and a PPI can open them up to possible litigation.