Atgani

Hi all,
I've found the perfect spec 997.2 C2 Coupe. It's Guards red with a black leather interior, sunroof delete, rear wiper delete, xenon plus dynamic headlights (a rare option in the UK) and Sport Chrono Plus, which means it's PDK ...

I have zero experience with PDK cars (though my daily drivers have been autos for the last 20+ years) but I did own a rare BMW E46 M3 CSL for three years and did 30k miles in it, and I quickly bonded with the much hated and derided SMG 2 flappy paddle gearshift. Once learned it became totally intuitive, and I liked the fact you had to finesse the changes to make it "work".
In other words, if the transmission has the basic functionality I need, I can and will work with it.

Given the choice. I'd much prefer it if the 997 was a 6 speed manual, but it's not, and the spec is otherwise perfect, (primarily because 997 Rennlister Dpmarc's old car is probably my favorite non-GT 997 on this forum) ... and I intend to do a build along similar lines to it.




So to the 60 million dollar question (and it's a very simple one) does pressing the "Sport Plus" button enable automatic throttle blips on downshifts whilst braking from speed at high revs ?
xenon plus dynamic headlig dynamic headlights

monochrom3

You don't need to press anything. The PDK will always rev match.

Wayne Smith

The rev match is pretty much perfect and the shift is fast to the point that you don't really hear a blip unless you pay major attention. You can perform multiple (sequential) downshifts by holding the paddle and then it is more obvious.

Atgani

Thanks, would I be right in thinking that hitting the Sport Plus button makes the blips/rev matching sharper/more aggressive ?

Atgani

Sounding good !!
I’m due to drive the car tomorrow. Any tips ?

monochrom3

sorta… sport plus assumes you’re driving in anger (or at the track) and raises the rpm shift points. You pretty much wouldn’t touch it in everyday driving

Atgani

Perfect !! Thankyou.

sandwedge

I see what you're saying and I assume (maybe incorrectly) that you're referring to sport plus in auto mode which of course has no place in everyday driving. Having said that, I'm in sport plus all the time in manual mode in everyday driving. Quicker and sharper shifts than just sport in manual mode.

Petza914

If you like the SMG, you'll love the PDK.

Phrog Phlyer

I would recommend driving it in all modes to compare the differences. Normal Auto mode will seem very anemic, you will be in 4th or 5th gear at 35mph lugging along. Sport Auto is perfect for "set and forget" driving in traffic. As mentioned before, Sport Plus Auto is angry or track use. Slide the shifter left, hit Sport or Sport Plus and it is as close to driving a manual as you can get, without the extra pedal.

sandwedge

This...right there Some don't care and must have that extra pedal and some do appreciate the latest transmission technology. As you say, without that third pedal, in sport plus/manual mode you'll come close to an old school manual, just way quicker. But as is near a 100% guaranteed response to these kind of threads, we will learn again that the good old manual is "more engaging" than the PDK.

And as I always respond back, you can make the PDK engaging if you learn how to use it with it's different modes/settings. Sadly, a lot of people who swear off the PDK have only driven PDK cars in auto/normal mode with no sport or sport plus available. Which I'll be the first to agree is a miserable experience. To me, the PDK can be very engaging in manual/sport plus mode to the point where I don't miss the engagement of a manual. But to each their own...

Atgani

Best make yourselves comfortable !!

Well, I tried it ...
The car was perfect, 65K miles, full history, presented beautifully and looked stunning in Guards red, less a sunroof, the rear wiper delete and the upgraded dynamic headlights. I was truly smitten.
I had to wait for the main man to appear (I viewed the car at a UK independent that is more biased towards servicing and repairing cars, than car sales, but I've had dealings with the owner previously and found him to very transparent and easy to deal with) so whilst waiting for him, I got chatting to one of the technicians there (a 993 owner) and discussed the PDK transmission with him, and he confirmed what those who had kindly and thoughtfully contributed to this thread, had said.

The owner of the business eventually appeared and I told him what I'd told the technician, that being I'd never driven/owned a PDK 911 previously, and thus this was going to be an education which would either sell the PDK concept me, or have precisely the opposite effect.

And with that, he kindly gave me the keys and told me to "Go drive it" !!

As it was pretty chilly here in the UK yesterday, I started it up, got the heated seats on, and cranked up the heater whilst I chatted to the technician, so by the time I drove the car, it was warmed through.

OK, let's get the "rant" out of the way ...
Let me say first off, all the negative comments made about the PDK shift "buttons" by the motoring press, were spot on, they are not in any way intuitive, so for a company such as Porsche to have thought they were a good design for a drivers car, quite frankly beggars belief.
This is the steering wheel in the car I tested :



​​​Initially I found myself having to concentrate on the shift button's functionality to avoid changing down by mistake (and yes, I did do just that on a least two occasions !!) rather than on concentrating on the road and actually driving the car. But once I'd "programmed" my mind as to what I should and shouldn't do, I quickly found myself more able to concentrate on using the PDK transmission, than on the process of shifting it.

I experimented with Sport and Sport Plus modes, along with "Normal" mode on a variety of roads, and whilst I mastered the shift buttons, I knew the shift button equipped steering wheel would be the first "casualty" of my modding programme, to be replaced with either a paddle equipped 997 wheel, or a 991 paddle equipped wheel, both of which I'd discussed the feasibility of with the technician prior to my road test.

I'm not going to discuss "the car", suffice to say, it was quick, felt very tight and based on my previous experiences in manual 997.2 C2 and C2 S's, it was good example.

So back to the PDK transmission ... I've spent the last 20 years in BMW daily drivers, and have seen the progress BMW have made with their auto boxes over that time. From the "reasonable" auto boxes in my E46 328i SE and E46 330D M/Sport, (neither of which had paddles or buttons on the steering wheel) to the far superior auto box in my E90 335D M/Sport which had buttons or let's call them shift "tabs" on both the LH and RH spokes on the steering wheel :



Both "tabs" enabled you to shift gears up or down, pull to shift up with your fingers, push to shift down with your thumbs. This layout was loved and loathed in equal measures. I loved them (I drove over 120k miles in the car equipped with them)

They had an easy action, no hard/noisy clicks when using them, just a nicely damped action. They rapidly came utterly intuitive to me, and were extremely easy to master and use (I finessed the gearbox shifts manually when driving, and especially so when driving quickly) but passengers were never aware of it, because the "tab's" operation was completely silent, and any movement of my fingers during upshifts couldn't be seen, and the thumb movements required for downshifts were incredibly subtle. So just why was the Porsche equivalent so utterly hopeless, clunky in action and counter-intuitive ... ?

Fast forward to 2014 and found myself in a F30 330D M Sport complete with the latest Z8 speed auto box and what is probably BMW's finest contemporary airbag equipped, flappy paddle steering wheel that they've manufactured to date (and I suspect ever will ... ) :



Regrettably this car was stolen two years ago (but not before I'd driven it for well over 100K miles) All of which is a long-winded way of saying, I "get" flappy paddle steering wheels, and I know that a good auto box takes some beating for a daily driver.

I've had numerous 996 and 997 GT cars (996GT2, 996 GT3/RS, 997 GT3) over the last 20 years, along with several 964 RS's and a 993 RS. All were "get up early on Sunday morning, or go out late on Summer evenings" drive cars.

I went into yesterday's road test with an open mind, and as I said previously, once I'd accepted the poorly thought out shift buttons on the steering wheel, I managed to concentrate on the PDK 'box itself.
But in fairly short order, I found myself asking "Just what is the point of this transmission, in this car, and specifically, for me ?"

And I couldn't come up with an answer that convinced me that this was the transmission I needed for my intended use.

If I had one car, and I was living 15-20 miles outside of London or LA and spent 90-120 minutes sat in slow moving/stationary, heavy traffic on my daily commute, I could most likely justify the PDK box, and accept what I perceived as it's shortcomings, but used solely as a "fun" car, I just couldn't. And try as might to "enjoy" the ability to change gear without having to use a clutch, time the shift action and blend the throttle as you would in a manual car, there was no enjoyment to be had from the process of pushing or pulling "those" buttons, and ultimately, I came to the conclusion there wouldn't be pulling paddles either, no matter how tactile or well engineered they were.

As I previously said, I owned a rare E46 M3 CSL and an E63 M6 V10, both of which featured the often derided SMG 2 gearboxes.
I had an ex-business colleague who said that for something to be really good, it has to be a bit cr*p, I think that applies to the BMW SMG gearbox concept, and I can also see how it could be applied to air-cooled 911's too.
The M3 CSL's transmission was, a bit like the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale's and the 430 Scuderia's, the best technology that BMW could muster at the time, and I test drove three cars soon after they were launched, and walked away from all of them, firmly of the mindset I'd never buy an SMG equipped car. But BMW evolved the SMG software on numerous (and I do mean numerous) occasions over the next 3-5 years, to the point whereby they'd finessed its shifts into something both usable, but also well matched to the S54 engine's revvy characteristics.
It was a full 5 years after the CSL was released, that I finally drove a car which had the very latest SMG software (it was an ex-BMW UK press car, go figure) and from the very first mile I'd driven the car, I knew I wanted it, and that I'd buy it (and I did), and within 48 hours of buying it, I took it on a ten day, 3000 mile tour of Europe. The love affair lasted 3 amazing years and 30,000 incredible miles.

But ... with the CSL, there was no manual option, if you wanted to enjoy one of, if not the best BMW M car chassis ever produced, you had no choice but to embrace, learn, understand, and adapt your driving technique to the SMG gearbox. The same applied to the E63 M6 V10, for in the UK (unlike the US) if you wanted to sample the magnificent NA V10 engine, you had no choice but to accept the SMG gearbox. Both were flawed, but once accepted and mastered, they didn't detract from the driving experience (for me) and not once did I return from the British equivalent of a "canyon carve" in either car thinking "That would have been so much more fun with a manual shifter".

With the 997.2, that's not the case, and for those that didn't require the convenience of a PDK transmission, the excellent 6 speed manual was an option.

After yesterday's test, I had a near two hour drive home, and I wracked my mind trying to come up with a reason/s I could justify buying the PDK equipped 997 I'd just driven. But beyond that stunning Guards red paintwork, and the various options (that made it so desirable to me) try as I may, I came to the overriding conclusion that the PDK brings "nothing to the table" for my my intended usage.

Thankyou to all those who contributed so helpfully to this thread, and sorry if ANY of the above offends, it's not meant to.

Petza914

Great post and perspective. Your 3 paragraphs above are exactly my feeling about a PDK 997, at least for my use case. I have an automatic 928 with a traditional 4 speed torque converter automatic. Shifts very smoothly and I've worked in a kick down relay mod so I can command a downshift at the lever without having to hit the button under the pedal. It's my DD and for that use case is perfect, but the 928 is more of a GTtype car than a sports car, so it's fine, but in my sports cars I want both my hands and both my feet involved in the drive.

Nate R

Beautiful car. I agree with your take. My old man has a 991 C2S PDK and it's for sure quicker but the 997 MT I got seems a lot more fun to me.

To each their own, both are excellent but for me part of the allure of the 911 was the history and I wanted the third pedal. No regrets here.

Happy hunting!

Atgani

Well, I have to admit to feeling somewhat despondent in the hours and days after after having driven the PDK equipped "Once in a lifetime spec" Guards red 997.2 C2 S with sunroof delete and rear wiper delete, black leather interior, sports seats and DCL headlights, and not found the PDK 'box to my liking. But I picked myself up and dusted myself down after a couple of days, and continued the search for my "Holy grail spec" car.

And ... whilst browsing Autotrader on my phone that evening, less than 72 hours after viewing the PDK equipped example, what should appear on AT but this (excuse the poor quality of the images, courtesy of AT) :







Note the lack of sunroof and rear wiper ... note too it also has DCL headlights, a black leather interior, Sport Chrono and PSE (which the PDK didn't have) ...
Oh, and did I mention it’s a manual ... And the icing on the cake ? It was located less than 25 miles from me

Fortuitous springs to mind