Busta Rib

I've filed a claim with PI. I had a minor low-speed no-fault collision that required replacement of my cracked rear bumper cover. The claim was processed very quickly, no hassles, factory OE parts were used, I was able to choose my repair shop, and they even reimbursed me for the aftermarket Moshammer rear diffuser that I had just had installed just a few months earlier. PI offered to do subrogation with the other driver's insurance company so I didn't have to deal with the hassle of waiting for the other insurer to process the claim on their end, which meant I was able to get the repairs completed immediately.

The bummer about PI is that they are not in many states, although they apparently will get certified in every/most states. Pete, I get that there is risk to switch carriers but I feel even if they stop providing coverage in my state, I'm confident I would have no issues finding another carrier. They just won't be as compelling and and as good a value as PI, IMO.

Petza914

That's great to hear.

Petza914

From the website, here's the current list of states they offer insurance in. I was going to request a quote just for comparison purposes, but not currently offered in SC.

Porsche Auto Insurance is currently available in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and Texas

cvalue13

I’m going to insure with PAI, but as a noob the question I have remaining is what to set the AV at.

Understanding it’s my decision to make, informative to my decision the better informed/considered views of others.

2010 CS, Cab, 6-speed, RWD
43,000 mi
great condition
meteor grey on black

Options:
Heated Seats
Wheel Caps with Colored Crest
Seat Ventilation
Bluetooth Interface for Mobile Phone Sport Chrono Package Plus Navigation Module for PCM
XM Radio
Universal Audio Interface

My instinct for AV was $55K but 🤷🏻‍♂️

carguy999

I'm waiting on Grundy to accept my quote but it is taking some days.

carguy999

Oh never mind, they were waiting on me :P

Busta Rib

Whatever you think the market value is to completely replace your car in case of a covered event, add $10K. A quick check on RL, BAT, Pcar, and Autotrader will give you a good idea of what that number will be. The delta between the two premiums is likely less than $50/yr and well worth it.

cvalue13

I feel a bit silly here, attempting to double-click on this, but want to make sure I understand the unstated assumptions.

How does this $10K over-indexing play out in the case of a - let’s call it - medium severity wreck, of a car with a then-current BAT etc comps of ~$55K, and PAI AV set at $65K.

Is it that the costs of OEM parts (or Porsche collision repair?) are so steep, that PAI may determine a ‘total loss’ (~over $65K in repair bills) for surprisingly minor accidents? E.g., a medium-low severity rear-ending of a 997 can so quickly exceed $65K, that the $10K over-index is a no brainer?

I suppose my lingering uncertainty is the game theory in the over-indexing approach. While obviously if one assumes PAI has determined a total loss, it’s nice to have the $10K over-index payout to put towards a replacement vehicle. But at the same time, the over-indexing means the “goal line” towards a PAI determination of ‘total loss’ is that much further out come time for estimates.

If the underling assumption is that repair esrimates of 997s are quick to exceed even over-indexed ATVs, then I think I follow the game theory.

But otherwise, it seems the over-indexing also leaves a price window wherein the repair estimate exceeds the then-current comps, but hasn’t met the AV.

Suppose it boils down to me not having a sense of how the market value of these cars relates to the collision repair costs of these cars.

carguy999

Are you guys with Grundy using their collector car insurance? I've just gotten a request:

A copy of your declarations page for your Personal Auto Policy - this is not your ID card, this would be a few pages long showing all of your coverages, like bodily injury, etc: we need to know that you have personal auto coverage in your state, since we can’t be a primary liability as a collector vehicle policy

Does this mean I need auto coverage from someone else in addition to the Grundy package? They also have a stipulation that the car is never used for any race or timed event - so no autocross or track?

Petza914

My Grundy policy is under their MVP section (which I think just stands for Multi Vehicle Policy). It's possible they won't only write one collector car like Hagerty will. When they agreed to take the high valuation on my widebody Cayenne, they would only do it if I moved all my cars to them. I also have a Liability Unbrella for extra protection but they are my only auto coverage policy.

Correct, no timed events. Technically that means DE events are ok since they're for driver education, but not sure if risk it and would buy track day coverage if doing that with one of my cars, or get the event pre-approved by them via email so you have a paper trail.

I would say autocross is a no, since it's timed.

Busta Rib

I think you are overthinking this. AV establishes a max ceiling in value you can tap into in a worst-case scenario (total loss). For any other potential claims along the spectrum of losses, you will have to go through the normal claims/adjuster process and PI will make the necessary repairs according to market rates for parts and labor. The agreed value doesn't really come into play unless you have a total loss event.

cvalue13

wouldn’t be the first time I’m accused of over-thinking … and I work with engineers! 🤣

All understood and obvious AV only applies in case of total loss.

The follow-up was about the recommendation to look at then-current market value, and add $10K (in my case, 18%).

So, while AV being applicable only in total loss is clear, what is less clear are the rationales and consequences to then juicing AV 18%/10K

I can think of some good rationales, but also some that sound good but have unintentional consequences - like not receiving a total loss adjudication when you wish you would have.

The risk of that appears to depend, far as I can tell, on how quickly OEM parts/labor can outstrip the market value of the car.



If the point still isn’t clear, that’s on me - but let me try to put an example to it.

Say I do my due diligence and come up with a pretty solid FMV of $55K.

Then I’m in an accident that has a certain type of damage I find distasteful to think about living with post-fix. And the adjuster comes back with an all-in offer of $45K to repair the car. At that spread, I may be able to argue $45K results in a total loss, get my $55K payout, and go buy a car that hasn’t been so deeply repaired.

But if that adjuster comes back with a $45K bill, and my AV is $65K, I’m more likely to be stuck with a repaired car.

The numbers are made up, but the basics of the point are there.

Obviously more money is better than less in a total loss. But the determination of total loss comes first.

Busta Rib

Yes, higher AV means higher basis for what is considered a total loss. That percentage can vary from 65-80% of total value. Pick your poison.

Petza914

AV only applying in the case of total loss is not actually true. That AV number is also what's used when the insurance company calculates whether a vehicle can be repaired or is a total loss. For example, let's say book on 997.1 is $45k but your AV is $65k. The insurance companies usually use a value of 70% of the value to determine if they should repair it or total it. So without AV coverage if the repair estimate is around $32k they'd total it instead of fix it, but with AV covwrage, the repair estimate would have to be $46k or greater to total it.

So if you have a unique or modified car where a comparable replacement would be hard to find, the higher AV coverage threshold might give you the option to repair and keep it whereas without it, would be totalled.

This is also why if you have AV coverage, you always go through your own insurance carrier for the repair and never through the other guys as you'll have the valuation fight with them if the repair comes close to the totalling threshold of market value. Your carrier, who you've been paying your premiums to, wants to make you happy so you continue doing that, especially when it's not costing them anything, and rest assured, they'll get every dollar back from the other guys insurance without you having to deal with them, where their objective is to close the claim as quickly and inexpensively as possible since you're not their customer.

cvalue13

great point

probably a bigger concern for folks with more unique configs than mine, but as time goes on …