Petza914

I believe only the 2009 997.2 Turbo uses the Mezger architecture. After that it's the newer engine platform. This is why if I was buying a Turbo that's the only year I'd look for.

qwertyqwerty

I'm just dealing and processing right now. My wife says the feeling in the house is like a family member died. I had my childhood friend and best car buddy ever over this weekend just by coincidence, which helped. I came within an inch of ordering a Tesla and trading it into to them just out of betrayal ($27K). Now this morning I'm thinking of getting my spot in early 2023 for Flat Six. It's a rollercoaster.
I just need time.

Optionman1

@qwertyqwerty where are you located? Happy to give you a ride in a FSI 4.0, albeit a 997.2, just so you can feel the difference. Don't rush a decision while you're still in mourning. Step back and take a good look at the options and their costs as well as your long term plans for the 911. Best of luck.

linderpat

My good buddy is going through the same thing with his 928, timing belt jumping motor. After much angst and discussion, we decided to pull it and rebuild it ourselves. I will assist. We have he WSM, the tools (most of them anyway) and these forums. Worst that could happen is that the car ends up in the same position it is now. The biggest financial risk is our time.

BTW - this is sig material: "I really do love the 996 forum as these guys rebuild engines on their dining room tables when the wife is at church." @PV997

qwertyqwerty

@Optionman1 I'm in the Boston area. It would be great to meet up at some point. I have a customer I visit on occasion in NJ which could be a nice meet up. No plans now travel but a possibility at a late date.
Thanks

rileyracing1

No worries mate .... This is why we love cars and go thru this type of thing ....This can turn out to be a positive thing as others have mentioned depending on which route you decide to go as in the end you may end up having a car inline with a comparable 997.1 GT3 and a nice asset in the future.

I just spent 35k on a new roof on my house .... I would have rather have had my engine pop knowing I would eventually have a 4.0 !! I have learned to turn little life nuisances as such into positive experiences. Time is on your side ....

Watch this video ...... This guy was in the same shoes as yourself and decided to go the DYI route and you can see the sparkle return as the car neared completion ... He chronicled the entire build in a very honest, approachable and cost effective way for himself and others who chose to follow.

qwertyqwerty

Car is gone, went to dealer auction, I had no financial loss because of crazy trade in market.
This is my vent:
A car that has bearing that fails early because of insufficient lubrication (IMS) and cylinders that score at under 30K miles is ridiculous. This would be ridiculous for a Chevy that had an MSRP of $17K. Neither of those issues have been technical challenges for over a hundred years in mass produced motors. But I really snapped out of it, making excuses for Porsche, when I realized one specific issue I had since I purchased the car. The digital LCD clock ran fast. It would pick up a minute or two per week and need to be reset twice a month. Digital clock technology is such that we can buy a $5 child's digital watch at Walmart and it will keep perfect time for more than a year, probably years. My '79 911 SC has a mechanical clock, never rebuilt, that keeps perfect time. I only set it once in the Spring when I hook the battery back up after coming out of storage. It still has perfect time when I unhook the battery in the Fall.
Think about the amount of "Who gives a ****" to not have a digital clock the work correctly. Thats' the attitude that leads to all this other crap. When I snapped out of "this happens", " it's ok" the thought that replaced those was that I had purchased a low quality Volkswagon with fancy bodywork. Sorry if that offends anyone but I am sharing this with (some) good intentions. Maybe it will inspire others to snap out of it and not throw money of this magnitude into something that is totally unacceptable. If you paid $40K plus for a car and then put $30K in the bank for the day it eats itself something is wrong. This time period in Porsches engineering history is ugly.
That's my rant, let me know where to send the $20 co-pay.

Petza914

Once you work on older Porsches like your 911 and my 928s you realize exactly when in history Porsche changed from being who they used to be with hand built over engineered cars to who they are now where profit is king. I love my 997 and the way it drives, but they're not engineered or built the way they were for the 993 and earlier cars.

qwertyqwerty

I owned the car for 7 months. When I think of the list of issues it is mind boggling.

• The frunk switch broke. I took it apart and the plastic pivots snapped. How many times was that used in a 30K mile car? Even if every trip it ever took was to a grocery store that would be less than 1,000 actuations.
• The tan center console had a section where the paint was worn off because when the passengers seat was adjusted it rubbed the paint off?
• If it was below freezing the drivers window would get stuck because it was fighting ice holding it, even though there was no ice visible on the window or car? So water must go down in there pool somewhere, and when it freezes it holds the glass.

It sounds like I'm complaining about a 1960's MG, am I right.
I can go on,

• Coolant smell (likely leak which is known to be an issue)
• Cracked ignition coil that looked corroded somehow?

...
These are all chronic issues other people have as well because when I have asked about them, owners chimed in with an instant diagnosis, because "it's a known issue" or "they had it"

Is that another $20 co-pay or is this the same session?

jamesinger

IT is a new session and you need to fill out a bunch of forms now.

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 175K miles

Porsche engineering took a turn for the worse because of financial trouble. In the 90s they were failing. As we all revere the 993, nobody wanted it... at least less and less did. So Porsche put in Weideking, he brought in Toyota consultants, and they made big changes. One, they slashed costs and cut racing support (now their cars won't be properly tested). And they moved to having a single water cooled engine platform for all models and variants. Again, cost cutting was king... why else install a sealed internal bearing when Porsche has always had an IMS shaft with oiled bearings since the '60s. This engine was first released in the '97 Boxster and immediatly had problems. Then the 911, and immediatly had problems. The word was out that the engine was not strong enough to support the turbo or GT3 variants so they deviated from plan and retrofitted the older 993 Metzger block in turbos and GT3s. Sad.

The shop foreman at my Philly Porsche dealer simply said, back then, "cheap engine". I had two blow. Sorry folks, that is my understanding and yes, the dealer shop foreman at the time really said that to me. But like Mr Petza, I loved my 2000 Boxster S so much, I stuck with the brand... and gambled on their new engine platform... that has turned out to be fantastic. They appear to be back on track again.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

platinum997

Sorry to hear about your engine and more importantly your experience with Porsche. As so many know.. there is more success stories than the unfortunate few that experience your particular scenario.

Hope your next experience (Porsche or not) is much more positive.

sandwedge

First off, sorry to hear how this ended. With two PDK failures I will add to your rant. Full transmission replacements due to the failure of a cheap electronic internal part (in both cases) that Porsche won't allow the dealerships to access. That's $20,000 x 2. At least I had extended warranty in both cases.

I can't find the link or the story but I read somewhere that Porsche after the IMS fiasco with the 996 and early 997.1's (some late ones too) over engineered the 997.2 DFI engine. I tend to believe it. Very few stories of 997.2 engine failures. As I said above though, the new IMS is the PDK. I don't know how common failures are. I doubt that my two failures are a good representation of the PDK reliability but after close to 13 years after introduction you'd think Porsche would allow the dealerships to repair broken PDK's just like they're allowed to repair manual transmissions if they fail. At least I think they're allowed to. Never heard of a busted manual 997 transmission.

So I would have no problem owning a 997.2 with a manual without a warranty. With a PDK, different story for obvious reasons,

Bruce In Philly

The over-engineering of the DFI engine is just an assumption as I never read anything from Porsche (that would be admitting to an under-engineered predecessor). I gambled on the new engine thinking that they had to or else damaging the brand... although they waited 11 years to bring out the new one so maybe they didn't care that much. Anywho... the engine is better in all (?) aspects including pumps. What gave me confidence is the video Porsche put out just prior to the release of the new engine where it was to show off their oil sump... remember, the engine on the test rig simulating the Nurburgring? I immediatly saw through that... few were complaining of bad oil sumps so why would the highlight that? I believed they were showing the world they actually tested the new engine.

Regarding the 997 manual transmission: Yea, I know of no failures. But as I noted before, it is far from a work of art to put it mildly.

Peace
Bruce in Philly (now Atlanta)

GTSpure

What he said. 9A1 has proven itself and is in fact also the platform used in GT3 / Cup - the "new Mezger".. Time has proven itself.
As for the manual transmission, you are right, I realized that in 997.2 it is not ZF and in 997.1 the manual transmission feels better (ZF)