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I have recently gotten my car borescoped at an official Porsche dealer due to fear of the potential bore scoring issue. The vehicle in question is a 2007 3.6 Carrera 2 with currently 30'000km or 20'000 miles on the clock. The mechanics told that the car is fine, runs smoothly and is well kept as there are very few signs of wear on the "cosmetic" side. Furthermore there are no tell tale signs of bore scoring such as sooty tailpipes, ticking noise, smoking on startups and above-average oil consumption.
Having said that, in the videos and pictures attached, one can clearly see that there are some markings on the cylinder walls, especially in C6 and C3. I have already spoken to various official dealers and Porsche specialists, whom the majority (however not all) has stated that this situation is not representative of bore scoring, but rather the visible signs are in line with the normal engine wear one would expect.
Attached are also some pictures of the oil filter & oil analysis results turned out fine - no excessive wear debris found (to note: oil had 500km and was taken from the oil filter housing rather than the drain plug).
I wanted to further cast light on this matter as I do not have the technical expertise required to make a sensible judgement on such a specific topic. Would be grateful if any engine guru could help me solve this riddle!
I recently had Bore Scope inspection as part of my large service of new clutch/flywheel/water pump/thermostat/plugs/coils/coolant flush/etc - All completed this week.
My car at 87,500 miles runs clean and smooth no soot/excessive oil burn/etc.
The only reason I had the BS Inspection performed is because of all the fear and worries not only on this Forum but all the hype on Bring a Trailer Auctions. I figured why not just get it done so I don't have to deal with all the BS worry fallout when I sell my car which I usually do every year or so for past 30 years.
My cylinders are really clean and smooth and got excellent report and this was just days ago.
Personally I wouldn't worry about a minute mark or random small/slight mark on cylinder wall. From what I have seen in other BS inspection photos when these engines have Bore Scoring they have lots of vertical scraping marks.
I am not an expert but just chiming in from the other Bore Score photos I have seen over past few years
All the best.
I have recently gotten my car borescoped at an official Porsche dealer due to fear of the potential bore scoring issue. The vehicle in question is a 2007 3.6 Carrera 2 with currently 30'000km or 20'000 miles on the clock. The mechanics told that the car is fine, runs smoothly and is well kept as there are very few signs of wear on the "cosmetic" side. Furthermore there are no tell tale signs of bore scoring such as sooty tailpipes, ticking noise, smoking on startups and above-average oil consumption.
Having said that, in the videos and pictures attached, one can clearly see that there are some markings on the cylinder walls, especially in C6 and C3. I have already spoken to various official dealers and Porsche specialists, whom the majority (however not all) has stated that this situation is not representative of bore scoring, but rather the visible signs are in line with the normal engine wear one would expect.
I'm still trying to understand why you are concerned based upon the above. If I had Porsche certified mechanics and experts telling me there is no problem, that would be the end of it for me. Yes there is great knowledge here, but still - the internet vs Porsche certified mechanics? Really? Unless the person here is doing the borescope and looking at the results in person, it's still just an informed guess/opinion. I think you are worrying way too much. Drive it and enjoy it as intended.
17528344[/url]]I'm still trying to understand why you are concerned based upon the above. If I had Porsche certified mechanics and experts telling me there is no problem, that would be the end of it for me. Yes there is great knowledge here, but still - the internet vs Porsche certified mechanics? Really? Unless the person here is doing the borescope and looking at the results in person, it's still just an informed guess/opinion. I think you are worrying way too much. Drive it and enjoy it as intended.
That’s generally good advice, but if one of the engine experts weighs in, I think that’s actually better than most Porsche certified mechanics because I think these engine builders (Raby, Hartech, Porschetech, others) have much more experience in these specific instances. I have talked to plenty of Porsche experts that, unfortunately, don’t know as much as the RL experts. Unfortunately, not all experts are the same.
That’s generally good advice, but if one of the engine experts weighs in, I think that’s actually better than most Porsche certified mechanics because I think these engine builders (Raby, Hartech, Porschetech, others) have much more experience in these specific instances. I have talked to plenty of Porsche experts that, unfortunately, don’t know as much as the RL experts. Unfortunately, not all experts are the same.
I agree with most of that except perhaps that despite the impressive knowledge available on this forum I think you have to give an edge to Porsche certified mechanics who have actually inspected the car in question in person. Now...if there are pictures of a borescope inspection for example then a number a participants here can probably provide a diagnosis as good or maybe even better than the Porsche tech who inspected the car.
Best of both worlds of course is to weigh the dealership's opinion against the most knowledgeable members here and draw conclusions accordingly. At least that's what I would do.
I agree with most of that except perhaps that despite the impressive knowledge available on this forum I think you have to give an edge to Porsche certified mechanics who have actually inspected the car in question in person. Now...if there are pictures of a borescope inspection for example then a number a participants here can probably provide a diagnosis as good or maybe even better than the Porsche tech who inspected the car.
Best of both worlds of course is to weigh the dealership's opinion against the most knowledgeable members here and draw conclusions accordingly. At least that's what I would do.
That is exactly why I started the thread. Asking surely won’t hurt, then to what extent the information is reliable is to determine.
Looks pretty normal to me and I would agree to not worry about it.
Not to be a jerk, but why are you bore scoping cylinders when there are no symptoms? It's like going to the doctor when you are feeling fine. If if you do find something there is nothing you can do to stop it short of the preventative steps we all should be doing anyways (frequent oil changes, don't get on it until oil warmed up, don't lug the engine, etc.). I don't understand why people go looking for trouble when the chances of a false positive are high and it's just one more thing to fret about. These cars are supposed to be fun not something to worry over. If we wanted "peace of mind" then there are much more suitable cars. I don't get peace of mind taking a curve at twice the posted speed.
Enjoy your car and continue to monitor your oil analyses, including your oil filters after each oil change. When my engine in my 997.1 S started exhibiting cylinder scoring, there were very small bits of metal showing up in the filter. When you start seeing these metal flakes, **** gets real and it's time to do another cylinder scope to see what's going on. Until then, drive and enjoy the car! It could be 10's of thousands of miles before anything serious happens.
Looks pretty normal to me and I would agree to not worry about it.
Not to be a jerk, but why are you bore scoping cylinders when there are no symptoms? It's like going to the doctor when you are feeling fine. If if you do find something there is nothing you can do to stop it short of the preventative steps we all should be doing anyways (frequent oil changes, don't get on it until oil warmed up, don't lug the engine, etc.). I don't understand why people go looking for trouble when the chances of a false positive are high and it's just one more thing to fret about. These cars are supposed to be fun not something to worry over. If we wanted "peace of mind" then there are much more suitable cars. I don't get peace of mind taking a curve at twice the posted speed.
Umm, the whole point of going to the doctor when you are feeling fine is to catch something early when it can be a life or death situation. Waiting too long is not a good recipe.
Looks pretty normal to me and I would agree to not worry about it.
Not to be a jerk, but why are you bore scoping cylinders when there are no symptoms? It's like going to the doctor when you are feeling fine. If if you do find something there is nothing you can do to stop it short of the preventative steps we all should be doing anyways (frequent oil changes, don't get on it until oil warmed up, don't lug the engine, etc.). I don't understand why people go looking for trouble when the chances of a false positive are high and it's just one more thing to fret about. These cars are supposed to be fun not something to worry over. If we wanted "peace of mind" then there are much more suitable cars. I don't get peace of mind taking a curve at twice the posted speed.
My counter-example to you is =>
If your car didn't have brake pad wear sensors, you would check them periodically for the amount of wear, even if PCCB - wouldn't you? Or would you just wait till you hear a different kind of brake squeal?
I agree that the bore scoring issue is overblown - like how IMS was a few years ago.
Just like folks getting a UOA done on every oil change, perhaps bore scoping can be done periodically (I guess at a much lesser frequency) just to catch things at a much earlier state.
If I knew my engine was on its way out, I'd appreciate the heads up so I can plan and start working on a "rebuild fund" etc (mine's a 997.1 3.6, DD with around 106k miles)
And I believe there are a few folks on this forum that planned the rebuild after the diagnosis.
"These cars are supposed to be fun" is the north star - but not the most accurate picture given the amount of chatter about bore scoring esp for 997.1.
Yes this might result in one more thing to fret about - but please don't tell me you absolutely have no worries about your P-car - granted, the levels of worry might be different etc.
If it's not about it failing, then it will be about accruing a few hundred miles more or the paint not shiny enough, or a few drops of rain on the car for some :P
You do understand that we are all part of the neurotic nerd crowd, don't you?
You should open a ticket with Flat 6 Innovations, let them look at your pictures/videos and get some free advice. No reason not to and you will learn from the best.
Umm, the whole point of going to the doctor when you are feeling fine is to catch something early when it can be a life or death situation. Waiting too long is not a good recipe.
Not the same. A doctor can actually do something about it, is a mechanic going to give your car chemo or surgery to cure the bore scoring? There is literally nothing that can be done for bore scoring other than the preventative steps we all should be doing anyways.
What can happen is that you get talked into a $25k rebuild based on FUD.
I don't know about you but I don't go to the doctor unless I'm actually sick aside from a very small number routine screenings.
Edit: On rereading my comment it comes off as a bit snarky, apologies as that wasn't the intent. My main point is that there is no upside to bore scoping a symptom-less engine, just potential downsides (false positives, stress, unneeded rebuilds). If buying or selling I get it, but otherwise no.
07-01-2021, 03:19 PM
997.1 Carrera 2 - Bore Scoring?
