Oil additives are a scam
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From: Atlanta
Oil additives are a scam
The title says it all, and I hope I am not offending a site sponsor. I know about bore scoring and have watched all of the videos. You are only going to increase the risk with an additive.
The motor oil manufacturers each employ dozens of engineers, tribologists (the science of wear, friction and lubrication), chemists, and lab technicians. They have fabulous research and testing laboratories with everything from scanning electron microscopes to engine dynos. They compete against each other, and collaborate with the engine manufacturers to ensure compatibility of the oil to the manufacturers' specifications. The engineers and scientists go to technical conferences and keep up with any new research. They optimize their additive package based on data from computer design-of-experiment computer programs and extensive testing. The additive package and the base oil are blended with parts per million accuracy. Porsche and all reputable car companies publish specifications for fluids including the motor oil.
Is it reasonable to believe that dumping in a bottle of unknown chemistry helps? At best you are wasting your money. More likely you are doing harm. The new additive might have compounds that are not compatible with what is already in the oil. For sure, the carefully designed additive blend is upset.
Some bullets:
My take on bore scoring: never leave the engine idling during cold-start enrichment. Drive off immediately, but slowly, after a cold start, and warm up the engine quickly but gently. Do not take a step backwards by tempering with a reputable-brand motor oil.
Peace
The motor oil manufacturers each employ dozens of engineers, tribologists (the science of wear, friction and lubrication), chemists, and lab technicians. They have fabulous research and testing laboratories with everything from scanning electron microscopes to engine dynos. They compete against each other, and collaborate with the engine manufacturers to ensure compatibility of the oil to the manufacturers' specifications. The engineers and scientists go to technical conferences and keep up with any new research. They optimize their additive package based on data from computer design-of-experiment computer programs and extensive testing. The additive package and the base oil are blended with parts per million accuracy. Porsche and all reputable car companies publish specifications for fluids including the motor oil.
Is it reasonable to believe that dumping in a bottle of unknown chemistry helps? At best you are wasting your money. More likely you are doing harm. The new additive might have compounds that are not compatible with what is already in the oil. For sure, the carefully designed additive blend is upset.
Some bullets:
- I worked for DuPont in the 1980s and read about this in their employee newsletter: DuPont sold Teflon(R) to an additive company, but became concerned. DuPont commissioned an independent engine laboratory to test the additive against the same motor oil with no additive. After seeing the results, DuPont issued a cease and desist order to the additive company, forbidding them to use their Teflon brand name. Without shame, the company changed the name from "Slick 50 with Teflon", to "Slick 50 with TFE", and continued to sell a product they knew was harmful. They purchased the TFE from a different supplier.
- Also in the 1980s, the Federal Trade Commission sued all of the oil additive companies under truth in advertising laws. Notice you do not see their ads anymore?Instead the direct-market to dealer shops and independent repair shops. If your dealer or mechanic try to sell you an oil additive, they are either ignorant or unscrupulous.
- For as long as I can remember, Mercedes owner's manuals contain language stating that the engine warranty is void if an aftermarket oil additive is detected in the oil of a warranty-claim engine. Mercedes knows this from experience. I looked for similar language in my 997 manual, and was dismayed that Porsche does not have similar language.
- All of the reputable motor oil suppliers recommend against using an additive. They also know better.
- Notice these additives "improve" any oil, regardless of the existing additive package? It would be far interesting if they would publish what is lacking in a reputable oil, and some data showing an improvement.
My take on bore scoring: never leave the engine idling during cold-start enrichment. Drive off immediately, but slowly, after a cold start, and warm up the engine quickly but gently. Do not take a step backwards by tempering with a reputable-brand motor oil.
Peace
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,723
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From: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Do your own research from objective sources. If you want more ZDDP or molybdenum disulphide, find a reputable oil with higher concentrations in their blend. Then rest easy knowing you are getting a proven additive package.
My take on bore scoring: never leave the engine idling during cold-start enrichment. Drive off immediately, but slowly, after a cold start, and warm up the engine quickly but gently. Do not take a step backwards by tempering with a reputable-brand motor oil.
Peace
Also, I completely agree with your recommendation about warming these cars up under load instead of letting them sit idling when cold. But you understand, most reliable sources believe there is more that contributes to the bore scoring problem than just cold-start enrichment, right?
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,968
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From: Cleveland Georgia
The only time to use an oil additive is never.
Knowing what I know about changing small things in the formulation of oil, I won't even think about an additive. When doing this the critical balance between the anti- wear package, and the detergents is thrown off. I once added something "really good" to an engine on my engine dyno, and I added it between dyno pulls, while the engine was still running. It was a dry sump engine, so I could easily do this.
I walked back into the control room, and I noticed the engine RPM had dropped. The additive reduced the idle speed enough to notably drop the engine idle speed. I only added 12 oz of this to 3.5 gallons of engine oil, which was a little less than the amount that the instructions called for.
I did a dyno pull and lost 7Lb/FT of torque across the board. Did another pull, and another, and all had the same results, but the hotter the oil got, the MORE power I lost. It also hurt the hot idle oil pressure, and cost me 6 PSI oil pressure at 7,000 RPM.
I Drained the oil, and replaced it with a fresh fill of the same oil, and the idle speed was back up, and so was the power, so was the pressure.
This is just one example.
I have yet to see any oil additive work, and I have tested a ton for other companies, and myself in 4 and 6 cylinder air cooled and water cooled Porsche and VW engines.
This is my direct experience, take it or leave it. You won't find me putting anything in my oil, unless its a blend I am making myself.... And the only thing you'll find me dumping in my fuel is Sea Foam, or Marvel Mystery oil if the vehicles is one of my fleet that's at least 70 years old.
Knowing what I know about changing small things in the formulation of oil, I won't even think about an additive. When doing this the critical balance between the anti- wear package, and the detergents is thrown off. I once added something "really good" to an engine on my engine dyno, and I added it between dyno pulls, while the engine was still running. It was a dry sump engine, so I could easily do this.
I walked back into the control room, and I noticed the engine RPM had dropped. The additive reduced the idle speed enough to notably drop the engine idle speed. I only added 12 oz of this to 3.5 gallons of engine oil, which was a little less than the amount that the instructions called for.
I did a dyno pull and lost 7Lb/FT of torque across the board. Did another pull, and another, and all had the same results, but the hotter the oil got, the MORE power I lost. It also hurt the hot idle oil pressure, and cost me 6 PSI oil pressure at 7,000 RPM.
I Drained the oil, and replaced it with a fresh fill of the same oil, and the idle speed was back up, and so was the power, so was the pressure.
This is just one example.
I have yet to see any oil additive work, and I have tested a ton for other companies, and myself in 4 and 6 cylinder air cooled and water cooled Porsche and VW engines.
This is my direct experience, take it or leave it. You won't find me putting anything in my oil, unless its a blend I am making myself.... And the only thing you'll find me dumping in my fuel is Sea Foam, or Marvel Mystery oil if the vehicles is one of my fleet that's at least 70 years old.
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 505
Likes: 115
The only time to use an oil additive is never.
Knowing what I know about changing small things in the formulation of oil, I won't even think about an additive. When doing this the critical balance between the anti- wear package, and the detergents is thrown off. I once added something "really good" to an engine on my engine dyno, and I added it between dyno pulls, while the engine was still running. It was a dry sump engine, so I could easily do this.
I walked back into the control room, and I noticed the engine RPM had dropped. The additive reduced the idle speed enough to notably drop the engine idle speed. I only added 12 oz of this to 3.5 gallons of engine oil, which was a little less than the amount that the instructions called for.
I did a dyno pull and lost 7Lb/FT of torque across the board. Did another pull, and another, and all had the same results, but the hotter the oil got, the MORE power I lost. It also hurt the hot idle oil pressure, and cost me 6 PSI oil pressure at 7,000 RPM.
I Drained the oil, and replaced it with a fresh fill of the same oil, and the idle speed was back up, and so was the power, so was the pressure.
This is just one example.
I have yet to see any oil additive work, and I have tested a ton for other companies, and myself in 4 and 6 cylinder air cooled and water cooled Porsche and VW engines.
This is my direct experience, take it or leave it. You won't find me putting anything in my oil, unless its a blend I am making myself.... And the only thing you'll find me dumping in my fuel is Sea Foam, or Marvel Mystery oil if the vehicles is one of my fleet that's at least 70 years old.
Knowing what I know about changing small things in the formulation of oil, I won't even think about an additive. When doing this the critical balance between the anti- wear package, and the detergents is thrown off. I once added something "really good" to an engine on my engine dyno, and I added it between dyno pulls, while the engine was still running. It was a dry sump engine, so I could easily do this.
I walked back into the control room, and I noticed the engine RPM had dropped. The additive reduced the idle speed enough to notably drop the engine idle speed. I only added 12 oz of this to 3.5 gallons of engine oil, which was a little less than the amount that the instructions called for.
I did a dyno pull and lost 7Lb/FT of torque across the board. Did another pull, and another, and all had the same results, but the hotter the oil got, the MORE power I lost. It also hurt the hot idle oil pressure, and cost me 6 PSI oil pressure at 7,000 RPM.
I Drained the oil, and replaced it with a fresh fill of the same oil, and the idle speed was back up, and so was the power, so was the pressure.
This is just one example.
I have yet to see any oil additive work, and I have tested a ton for other companies, and myself in 4 and 6 cylinder air cooled and water cooled Porsche and VW engines.
This is my direct experience, take it or leave it. You won't find me putting anything in my oil, unless its a blend I am making myself.... And the only thing you'll find me dumping in my fuel is Sea Foam, or Marvel Mystery oil if the vehicles is one of my fleet that's at least 70 years old.
Thanks Jake! As usual your explanations are excellent and detailed
What about a fuel additive? Do you recommend?
[porsche fuel container Additive 00004320902]
Thanks in advance
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Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,968
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From: Cleveland Georgia
As far as fuel additive, the only thing I use is Sea Foam and it works instantly. In the old stuff I have Marvel Mystery oil helps to keep things happier that we’re originally designed for leaded fuel. I use Marvel in these engines, but they are for my really old stuff.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
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From: Brookfield, Wis.
Oh STP and Marvel Mystery oil are de schnitz! Just ask Andy G. He'll give you the straight scoop! And some of those fancy stickers as well. Pretty sure IMSA and SCCA and PCA will want to do a re-scoot if they found out your using those power adders!!
Nuff said!
Nuff said!
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