Oil additives are a scam
03-11-2021, 10:41 AM
#46
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Changes to lubricants driven by OEM requirements have an adverse effect on the backwards compatibility of modern oils for older vehicles (with primary focus on fuel economy and emissions system protection being the driving force behind these changes), hence why we now have new product classes for classic and performance engines. Just shopping by brand or using an off the shelf oil might not be the best choice for your engine.
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DesmoSD (03-11-2021)
03-11-2021, 11:58 AM
#48
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03-11-2021, 12:48 PM
#49
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Lubrizol actually discontinued several years back the specific additive package that Driven was using and they switched over to Afton. It's probably been five years now I'm guessing since they made the change. What drove this was the fact that sodium detergents had to be eliminated from oils as they cause LSPI in direct injected engines. Lubrizol stopped making the additive package Driven was using that had sodium detergents. Same goes with Penn Grade since it no longer has sodium based detergents where Brad Penn did.
Changes to lubricants driven by OEM requirements have an adverse effect on the backwards compatibility of modern oils for older vehicles (with primary focus on fuel economy and emissions system protection being the driving force behind these changes), hence why we now have new product classes for classic and performance engines. Just shopping by brand or using an off the shelf oil might not be the best choice for your engine.
Changes to lubricants driven by OEM requirements have an adverse effect on the backwards compatibility of modern oils for older vehicles (with primary focus on fuel economy and emissions system protection being the driving force behind these changes), hence why we now have new product classes for classic and performance engines. Just shopping by brand or using an off the shelf oil might not be the best choice for your engine.
03-11-2021, 09:28 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Where I live , when you can find it and after tax DT-40 or XP9 for my Cayenne costs $20cdn per Liter X 8L = $160 not including the filter. For a street driven pleasure cars whose oil gets changed every 5k both my "bore prone" 997 and 955 run extremely well with a good quality oil and the two Liqui Moly additives used as suggested how can I justify using Driven products ??
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
Last edited by rileyracing1; 03-11-2021 at 09:40 PM.
03-11-2021, 10:34 PM
#51
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Where I live , when you can find it and after tax DT-40 or XP9 for my Cayenne costs $20cdn per Liter X 8L = $160 not including the filter. For a street driven pleasure cars whose oil gets changed every 5k both my "bore prone" 997 and 955 run extremely well with a good quality oil and the two Liqui Moly additives used as suggested how can I justify using Driven products ??
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
In my pickup and my daughter's X5, I use Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.becsuse neither of those cars is as special and I won't have them forever. I had used DT40 in my truck and the UOA reports with the shell are not as good as they were with the DT40.
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rileyracing1 (03-12-2021)
03-12-2021, 12:07 AM
#52
Rennlist Member
Where I live , when you can find it and after tax DT-40 or XP9 for my Cayenne costs $20cdn per Liter X 8L = $160 not including the filter. For a street driven pleasure cars whose oil gets changed every 5k both my "bore prone" 997 and 955 run extremely well with a good quality oil and the two Liqui Moly additives used as suggested how can I justify using Driven products ??
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
If DT and even harder to find XP9 was more accessible and when I can find them I am not presented with a super dusty boxes which gives me the impression they have been at my local supplier being used as foot stools in the back shop for quite sometime, then factoring in double the cost for 16L to do both my cars. The alternative I am am faced with is using a good quality oil and adding moly which has been stated countless times in previous threads to be pretty much what DT40 would be and as quoted from a 2019 thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...erience-2.html Would appear on the surface to make good and also economical sense ?
How about Driven lowers the price of their oils to make them more accessible to the masses and more appealing and less cost prohibitive for the local suppliers to keep in stock and then Driven can make their profit thru selling quantity and thus make all of us happy so we can all find it and use it in bountiful quantities and in the process putting this always surfacing oil thread to rest !!
https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-02406/
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rileyracing1 (03-12-2021)
03-12-2021, 11:21 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
I buy mine for $12 us / quart from Summit Racing, make sure to spend $100 total on the order and get free ground shipping, which actually arrives the next day from their GA warehouse to me in SC. Since I keep my cars forever and have so many, most only see 5,000 miles per year or one oil change. That's not a big deal cost wise to use what's best for the engine's longevity.
In my pickup and my daughter's X5, I use Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.becsuse neither of those cars is as special and I won't have them forever. I had used DT40 in my truck and the UOA reports with the shell are not as good as they were with the DT40.
In my pickup and my daughter's X5, I use Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.becsuse neither of those cars is as special and I won't have them forever. I had used DT40 in my truck and the UOA reports with the shell are not as good as they were with the DT40.
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03-12-2021, 11:24 AM
#54
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03-12-2021, 11:26 AM
#55
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Zn 1482
P 1319
Ca 1812
Mo 644
Boron 138
Mg 13
Visc 100C 13.74 cSt
For anyone with an aircooled 911 running DT50, the additive levels are pretty much the same. Only difference is the viscosity @ 100C which is 17.18 cSt since it's a 15w50.
03-12-2021, 12:33 PM
#56
Canadian source. $15/bottle.
https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-02406/
https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-02406/
You found it.
You found DI40 in Canada.
https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-18406/That's why I continued to run Mobil 1 w/ Ceratec; I had no other choice.
Now I can switch from one snake oil to another!
Okay - so for those of you "in the know" - to switch from the classic Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Spec to DI40 - can I just do a swappy swappy or do I need to run BR40 through it once?
Last edited by mcfisticuffs; 03-12-2021 at 12:36 PM. Reason: provided DI40 link. Edit2: Breakin Q.
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rileyracing1 (03-12-2021)
03-12-2021, 12:55 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
oh. my. gawd.
You found it.
You found DI40 in Canada. https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-18406/
That's why I continued to run Mobil 1 w/ Ceratec; I had no other choice.
Now I can switch from one snake oil to another!
Okay - so for those of you "in the know" - to switch from the classic Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Spec to DI40 - can I just do a swappy swappy or do I need to run BR40 through it once?
You found it.
You found DI40 in Canada.
https://www.jbspowercentre.com/item/...ing-Oil-18406/That's why I continued to run Mobil 1 w/ Ceratec; I had no other choice.
Now I can switch from one snake oil to another!
Okay - so for those of you "in the know" - to switch from the classic Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro Spec to DI40 - can I just do a swappy swappy or do I need to run BR40 through it once?
03-12-2021, 08:18 PM
#58
Performance improvements in TO has it:
https://performanceimprovements.com/products/JG02406
https://performanceimprovements.com/pages/product-list?itemNumber=driven
https://performanceimprovements.com/products/JG02406
https://performanceimprovements.com/pages/product-list?itemNumber=driven
03-18-2021, 10:55 AM
#59
This has been a fascinating read. I can appreciate Jake's practical and empirical feedback, but it may not capture all scenarios.
While this is not my industry, I am certain oil manufacturers still look at the bottom line. I don't think they are cutting corners, but they are not going to add an expensive component for minimal gains.
I am sure additives can have a positive impact, but it may not be worth the return on investment or risk. There are far too many unknowns than knowns.
This is a car forum, so almost all opinions are based on anecdotal evidence. Some of that evidence is decades of Porche racing experience, but it is still just anecdotal.
While this is not my industry, I am certain oil manufacturers still look at the bottom line. I don't think they are cutting corners, but they are not going to add an expensive component for minimal gains.
I am sure additives can have a positive impact, but it may not be worth the return on investment or risk. There are far too many unknowns than knowns.
This is a car forum, so almost all opinions are based on anecdotal evidence. Some of that evidence is decades of Porche racing experience, but it is still just anecdotal.
Last edited by snethss; 03-18-2021 at 11:42 PM. Reason: spelling
03-18-2021, 11:44 AM
#60
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2009 C2S 170K miles
Porsche has a challenge like all car companies...... they make a product that is sold globally. They need to meet global regulations. They want to match or beat competitor claims for gas mileage and easy service. They want their customers to have an easy time of obtaining supplies wherever they travel. They want to make their cars as cheaply as they can and meet marketing/engineering specifications. They have a warranty on their cars, but are afraid of what owners will do to them or put into the engines...... So..... Porsche works with suppliers, Mobil (?), to develop a standard that meets all their requirements.... "A40" and "no additives". Is this a surprise?
Is A40 the BEST? Most likely not.... but is it EVIL? Most likely not. So, have at it.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Porsche has a challenge like all car companies...... they make a product that is sold globally. They need to meet global regulations. They want to match or beat competitor claims for gas mileage and easy service. They want their customers to have an easy time of obtaining supplies wherever they travel. They want to make their cars as cheaply as they can and meet marketing/engineering specifications. They have a warranty on their cars, but are afraid of what owners will do to them or put into the engines...... So..... Porsche works with suppliers, Mobil (?), to develop a standard that meets all their requirements.... "A40" and "no additives". Is this a surprise?
Is A40 the BEST? Most likely not.... but is it EVIL? Most likely not. So, have at it.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
Last edited by Bruce In Philly; 03-18-2021 at 11:46 AM.