GPappy

I have a 996 Cab that I purchased to get into the world of 911's. Now I am hooked and looking for something better. The Cab has a Prior Salvage Title from a theft recovery so I have been watching for a 1999-2001 manual coupe with a bad engine to swap into (like the old saying about looking for a rich widow with a bad cough). I can afford more but in the interest in keeping domestic tranquility I have been looking to find that elusive 996-1 roller.

I have run across a 2009 C4S that has everything I wanted except that it is a PDK, it is black, it is 1800 miles away, and it has 120K miles on it. I am looking for opinions on what I would be getting into with an early PDK and that many miles. I read the unfortunate saga of bronz's 9A1 and PDK failures which make me cringe but how prevalent is it really? The 911 is at a dealership which to me is a plus. With that many miles I would think that they would send it to auction if there were any issues but I wont be able to see it before purchase.

Any thoughts on what it should be worth? I am looking for a daily driver, should it last another 100K with proper maintenance?

Talk me out of it so I can go back to be a cheap *ss bast*** and look for that elusive 996 manual coupe roller.

Wayne Smith

The 997.2 is pretty much bullet proof. I've for 135K miles on my 2010 C4S PDK with no problems. There are several here with more miles.

Get a good PPI. Fly out. Drive it home. Bond.

Nero_tDriveway

35-40k range seems fair personally.

voiceprint1

why buy a car your not into? just get a nice 996, they are a steal, even the 4s is not out of bounds, the only 996 that is climbing is the Turbo

hexagone

30k.

Very few people in that market for PDK/high mileage, and above 100k the audience is very slim. While you can chance it with PDK, there are no shortage of breakages documented. My boss had his Turbo S PDK crap out at 90k and walked away from the car. It's a non zero chance.

GPappy

Thanks all for the thoughts. I have read about a few PDK failures which concerns me some. Probably no more than an IMS failue I guess.

G.I.G.

Another option would be a 997.1 considering your price range. It might be the happy medium between a 996 that you already have experience with, and buying a high mileage 997.2.

You're more likely to find a manual .1 than you are with a .2, especially in your price range. I think the PDK is a fantastic transmission, but if you prefer driving a manual and/or are concerned about the price of a PDK replacement with a higher mileage car, you might want to stick with the a manual. The '06 and up .1's have the larger IMS bearing and a much smaller probability of failure. While .1's tend to have a higher probability of bore scoring over the .2's, it's still an overall low probability if you buy a car from a warmer climate or wasn't driven in the winter in a cold climate. Either way, get a good PPI on whatever car you choose to go with.

Also, the 997.1 base Carrera's shouldn't be overlooked. You could buy a clean one with fewer miles and make it your own (lowering Springs, etc.) if you so choose. They're great cars and they might fit your budget.

Enjoy the hunt.

63mercedes

I would say the PDK failure rate is way lower than the IMS and that wasn't too too bad. It was bad enough to keep me searching for .2's only but I wouldn't be losing sleep over it. If it made it to 120K it'll probably go 200k no problem.

sandwedge

Well put. I can only recall reading about 2 or three PDK failures on this forum which obviously doesn't make for a great data base but combined with feedback from the local dealership and other sources they seem pretty rare. And 9A1 engine failures seem equally rare so if I had to choose between patching up a salvage 996 vs. a high mileage 2009 PDK C4S I wouldn't have think long to decide in favor of the C4S given a good PPI. I had one of them (2009 PDK) and it's a great car. Huge difference compared to any 996 in every aspect as I see it.

The bronz saga as tragic as it was has to be viewed as an almost impossible serious of failures to happen more than once. Of course I can't prove that but he had a highly reliable transmission with an excellent reputation fail along with an engine with the same or maybe even better reputation fail. What are the odds?

Sooner

If by chance this is the 2009 C4S at Porsche of Boise, that was my car. I just traded it last month for an '18 C4GTS. I can tell you the car is very solid, and has had all the maintenance done. I bought the car in '14 with 48K miles. All of the maint paperwork since new was provided to the dealer. The car has the expected rock chips and wear for the mileage, but no mechanical issues at all. If you have other questions, PM me.

groovzilla

Personally I would wait for nice Manual Transmission 997 if that is what you truly want.
Just like your wanting coupe instead of your cab, you will feel the same way about the PDK and long for a manual.
Always best to be patient and wait for the right car.

I've owned 3 996 C4S's and 2 previous 997's - A C2 and C4S and now have my current low mileage 2007 997S - I have to tell you the design and ride of 997 is much better and just overall 997 a much nicer car.
Do yourself a favor and wait for a lower mileage manual transmission example.

I would spend your time looking for the 997 and dumping your salvaged 996 Cab. Selling a salvaged 996 Cab will keep you busy for a while and when sold, you'll have more cash in your pocket while shopping and be freed up.

And if I was hard up, I wouldn't pay more than $31K for that Black PDK 997 w/120K miles - The miles will kill that car when it hits anything over 130K

Bruce In Philly

2009 C2S 156K miles

I have a manual transmission... but FWIW....

My car has been solid... the usual suspects such as suspension clunks, failed power steering pump and some others... but nothing I can point to that says "bad car". The 997.2 appears to be very well addressed... something I thought Porsche had to do after the problems they had with the previous generation of engines. So, in general, buying a higher-mileage 997.2 is lower risk than previous cars. However..... here comes that big butt again..... a high-mileage car is still a high-mileage car. I would never buy any car over say... um.....30K miles. This is just me. For one, I keep my cars a long long time and therefore can justify a higher priced unit. Buying a high-mileage car just means I will not own it as long.... and given the universe's fuel is this nasty thing called entropy.... stuff breaks.... older cars will break down more. I don't want any of that at all.

There is another assumption/question behind your motivation to ask this question here...... you don't have to answer this publicly.... but are you considering a higher-mileage Porsche because you can't afford a lower-mileage unit? If this is true, you may be putting yourself at risk as these cars are not cheap to maintain. Further, the PDK, while it appears to have a low failure rate, can be catastrophic to your personal finances as they are EXPENSIVE! This, for me, is simply unacceptable.

Regarding the common wisdom of "if it lasted x miles, it will go forever" or whatever other variances on this theme are..... my story..... Back when I purchased a 2000 Boxster S new, the stories were coming out of the engines blowing up... multiple reasons... I had the 2nd highest mileage car (911 and Boxster) with the new water-cooled engine my Philly-based dealer saw. At around 40K miles on the meter, I asked the shop foreman about it... he said something like "They blow with low mileage... if yours lasted 40K, it will.....". Then my engine blew a few thousand miles later. Take what you will from this story....... Some may feel it is irrelevant due to the unique characteristics of that engine design, but keep in mind, these opinions are formulated after many years of looking back on it. While the 9A1 engine in the 997.2 now has 11 years on it....... we still don't know what the real design specs were.... for example, was Porsche engineers ordered to design to 100K miles, 150K miles? 200K miles? BTW, my second engine in that Boxster blew.. two!!! blew. That experience has left me emotionally scarred. I just don't want those experiences, and the daily concerns ever again.... especially "can I take it on this trip?" crap.

Sorry for being a downer, but something to ponder. To repeat, I am very very impressed with this 9A1 engine.... but still would not buy one with over say 30K miles. Not because I think the engine will give problems above that, I just don't like the risk, costs, and lower longevity I will have purchasing a high-mileage unit.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

GPappy

All good points of discussion. Let me start by saying that I can afford to buy a new Porsche, I choose not to. Well, my wife and kids have something to do with that. I actually enjoy working on cars. I have a 1967 Mustang Retro Mod that I am working on, a Jeep Wrangler with a transplanted LS engine, a 2008 Silverado Duramax with 370K miles, and my wife's 2017 Pacifica. Her vehicles are the only ones that I buy new. I am not adverse to high miles if well taken care of and I enjoy working on my own vehicles so the cost of maintenance is reasonable. I made an offer consistent with recommendations here and was politely told to go away. Not even a counter.

I have set an arbitrary budget for what I want to spend for a toy and I am looking for the best 911 I can get for that budget. It means I am mostly looking at base 997.1 with 50K - 75K miles. I would rather have a 997.2 and a C4S would be great so I may eventually up the budget to get one but most of them are just more than I want to spend on what would be a toy for me. That is kind of why when I saw this one I was tempted.

I guess that I will continue to search for a better match. I will keep the 996 so that I have a toy to drive, It will probably only bring $10K max so not a factor in buying a different car.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

GPappy

I am curious of your thoughts on the C2S vs C4S since you have had both.

Petza914

I would avoid a higher mileage PDK unless you could get and plan to buy a warranty with it. My personal opinion is if you like Manual Transmissions, you'll enjoy the novelty of the PDK for a while, but unless you track the car frequently or sit in traffic a lot, you'll eventually wish you had found one with a Manual Transmisison - it's just a more engaging driving experience. On a track where it's all about lap times, the PDK is faster and lets you focus more on driving technique corner entry and exit lines, balance, etc without have to worry about the clutch and shifter, but for pure driving enjoyment in a non-track scenario, nothing beats a manual.