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Iron is a little high for only 2,500 miles, but see what the next one looks like with less contamination from what was in the car previously. Otherwise, good report.
Yea, I was a little concerned with the iron as well. I will admit the car basically sees redline every time I drive it 😂. I do have the magnetic LN drain plug. It for sure had a little metal on it. I should have taken a picture 🤦♂️. I checked the oil filter and it was spotless.
Yea, I was a little concerned with the iron as well. I will admit the car basically sees redline every time I drive it 😂. I do have the magnetic LN drain plug. It for sure had a little metal on it. I should have taken a picture 🤦♂️. I checked the oil filter and it was spotless.
Taking it to redline isn't necessarily bad, provided the car has been allowed to fully get up to operating temps, which easily could take 10+ minutes. I too am sometimes guilty of premature high RPMs
If it's the 2009 it's a naturally aspirated 4.0 so LSPI is less of a concern than it would be on the newer DFI engines that are forced induction (turbos). I agree though that DI40 is still a better oil even if you don't need LSPI protection.
I know Jake recommended the LM. Still fascinated why he thinks it's better than DI40 since he always has solid logic.
I also personally switched to 3K OCIs once my engine hit 100K miles. Oil is cheap compared to engine work......
I will add that Jake and I have discussed the LM2040 specifically. He does like that oil because it has very low oil consumption compared to other oils.
I will add that Jake and I have discussed the LM2040 specifically. He does like that oil because it has very low oil consumption compared to other oils.
Could you elaborate what properties the oil has that make it be less consumed vs other oils?
Thank you, Charles! Interesting that Jake prefers less oil consumption potentially at the expense of higher wear. What's wrong with a little oil consumption? Case in point: My long term oil consumption actually increased when I switched to Driven DI40 in my Audi Q5 2.0T -- be that coincidence or not -- but the wear levels significantly decreased and it is still consuming less than 1 quarter per 5K miles (which is very low for this DFI turbo engine) so the increase was really at the margin rather than anything to give much attention to. Even running a high ZDDP oil that some fear can kill your cats (nonsense), I am nowhere near concerned at all at this level of consumption, you would have to be consuming a lot more oil. My cats have 110K miles on them and the readings look perfect. Curious why he cares that much about a little consumption. Thanks as always for the information.
Could you elaborate what properties the oil has that make it be less consumed bs other oils?
Lack of friction modifiers would be my guess.
The only other thing I do remember from years ago working with Lake was if the ester content was increased we would see an increase in oil consumption which was also affected by what fuel was used (summer vs winter, ethanol vs non-ethanol).
The only other thing I do remember from years ago working with Lake was if the ester content was increased we would see an increase in oil consumption which was also affected by what fuel was used (summer vs winter, ethanol vs non-ethanol).
Interesting! Didn't think that friction modifiers like Moly would contribute to potential oil consumption. Also, always thought that high ester content oils were seen as "premium" and would resist breakdown better.
Thank you, Charles! Interesting that Jake prefers less oil consumption potentially at the expense of higher wear. What's wrong with a little oil consumption? Case in point: My long term oil consumption actually increased when I switched to Driven DI40 in my Audi Q5 2.0T -- be that coincidence or not -- but the wear levels significantly decreased and it is still consuming less than 1 quarter per 5K miles (which is very low for this DFI turbo engine) so the increase was really at the margin rather than anything to give much attention to. Even running a high ZDDP oil that some fear can kill your cats (nonsense), I am nowhere near concerned at all at this level of consumption, you would have to be consuming a lot more oil. My cats have 110K miles on them and the readings look perfect. Curious why he cares that much about a little consumption. Thanks as always for the information.
I really don't care about oil consumption either. My 2006 VW GTI used a quart of oil every 700 miles since it was new running Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40. Now with 140k miles on it with DT40 it finally only burns a quart in about 3k miles. Still on the original cats with no issues :-)
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
I run DT40 in many of my engines including a couple DFI ones with fine results.
I use DT40 in:
wife's 05 997 C2S at 108k miles
daughter's new to us '12 Audi Q5 3.2L DFI v6 at 125k miles (1st oil change just done - had M1 0w40 Euro formula before from PO so will be a good comparison over the next 2 reports)
'01 GMC Sierra c3 with 6.0L v8 at 225k miles and owned since new (no head or lifter work)
'09 650 HP modified DFI Cayenne Turbo S - DT40 since 30k miles and now has 48k with stellar reports
Here's the most recent Cayenne report. Probably going to move this car to a 4k mile interval since it doesn't see a lot of mileage and the oil is getting slightly acidic based on time.
You can see how much better the DT40 works in it than the M1 0w40 Euro that was in it when I bought it. Copper and Iron wear is lower and viscosity is better
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
I didn't know this - good for you guys, and him. So you're going to do all the sales, scheduling, etc?
I really don't care about oil consumption either. My 2006 VW GTI used a quart of oil every 700 miles since it was new running Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40. Now with 140k miles on it with DT40 it finally only burns a quart in about 3k miles. Still on the original cats with no issues :-)
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
Good point, I think you are right. Buyers are definitely funny sometimes especially with high end brands/purchases and they have these ideas in their head. Sometimes they have unrealistic expectations. If my oil consumption isn't increasing, I'm not worried. Fascinating your oil consumption actually decreased so much into high mileage with DT40.
Didn't know you were taking over sales and support. You are great at working with people and if that's what Jake wants, I think it's a great move for both of you.
I didn't know this - good for you guys, and him. So you're going to do all the sales, scheduling, etc?
Yup, the transition will be coming in 2023. Many who have purchased engines from Flat 6 Innovations have worked closely with Jake's OPS Manager, Jud - he'll be joining the LN team and will provide a seamless transition for existing customers and new customers will benefit from his many years at Flat 6 Innovations.
Yup, the transition will be coming in 2023. Many who have purchased engines from Flat 6 Innovations have worked closely with Jake's OPS Manager, Jud - he'll be joining the LN team and will provide a seamless transition for existing customers and new customers will benefit from his many years at Flat 6 Innovations.
That's great. I've met Jud and talked with him before. Great for you guys.
I really don't care about oil consumption either. My 2006 VW GTI used a quart of oil every 700 miles since it was new running Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40. Now with 140k miles on it with DT40 it finally only burns a quart in about 3k miles. Still on the original cats with no issues :-)
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
From a quart oil usage per 700 miles to 3000 just from changing the oil from Motul to DT40?! Is that typical? I could’ve sworn I saw a post here where someone actually burned more oil in their 997 after changing to DT40 from Motul. I went from M1 5W-50 to Motul and saw about 40% less oil usage with the Motul. The flashpoint for both oils is about the same (442F for Motul, 450F for DT40), so how could DT40 burn so much less?
Also, the criteria for A40 certification is shown below. DT40 says they meet/exceed A40 specs so do they test these same procedures to make that claim?
Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
Last edited by Carreralicious; 11-16-2022 at 02:19 PM.
From a quart oil usage per 700 miles to 3000 just from changing the oil from Motul to DT40?! Is that typical? I could’ve sworn I saw a post here where someone actually burned more oil in their 997 after changing to DT40 from Motul. I went from M1 5W-50 to Motul and saw about 40% less oil usage with the Motul.
Also, the criteria for A40 certification is shown below. DT40 says they meet/exceed A40 specs so do they test these same procedures to make that claim?
Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
Let me clarify. My example from my GTI has zero relevance other than the fact that high oil consumption doesn't necessarily mean anything negative and that every engine is different and how it responses to oil selection. I think that was the point I was trying to make. Sorry for the confusion!
With regards to the A40 testing procedure, manufacturers selling an A40 oil do not have to pay to have this testing done. What they have to do is use the approved base stocks and additives at a prescribed blend rate. That's why there is very little difference in the actual performance between A40 oils other than from gains or losses caused by viscosity, say 0w40 vs 5w40, the latter having a higher HTHS viscosity which in turn reduces wear, but decreases fuel economy.
There is no way DT40 would meet the A40 specification as they aren't constrained by the A40 specification. Used oil analysis and real world results of running DT40 (and DI40) show it is superior to its corresponding A40 or C40 oils they replace.
Long story short, the proof is in the pudding. Do used oil analysis so you can see this for yourself as others have shared.
11-15-2022, 02:13 PM
Case in point: My long term oil consumption actually increased when I switched to Driven DI40 in my Audi Q5 2.0T -- be that coincidence or not -- but the wear levels significantly decreased and it is still consuming less than 1 quarter per 5K miles (which is very low for this DFI turbo engine) so the increase was really at the margin rather than anything to give much attention to. Even running a high ZDDP oil that some fear can kill your cats (nonsense), I am nowhere near concerned at all at this level of consumption, you would have to be consuming a lot more oil. My cats have 110K miles on them and the readings look perfect. Curious why he cares that much about a little consumption. Thanks as always for the information.
