Another oil analysis
#451
Yea, I was a little concerned with the iron as well. I will admit the car basically sees redline every time I drive it 😂. I do have the magnetic LN drain plug. It for sure had a little metal on it. I should have taken a picture 🤦♂️. I checked the oil filter and it was spotless.
#452
Rennlist Member
Yea, I was a little concerned with the iron as well. I will admit the car basically sees redline every time I drive it 😂. I do have the magnetic LN drain plug. It for sure had a little metal on it. I should have taken a picture 🤦♂️. I checked the oil filter and it was spotless.
#453
Rennlist Member
If it's the 2009 it's a naturally aspirated 4.0 so LSPI is less of a concern than it would be on the newer DFI engines that are forced induction (turbos). I agree though that DI40 is still a better oil even if you don't need LSPI protection.
I know Jake recommended the LM. Still fascinated why he thinks it's better than DI40 since he always has solid logic.
I also personally switched to 3K OCIs once my engine hit 100K miles. Oil is cheap compared to engine work......
I know Jake recommended the LM. Still fascinated why he thinks it's better than DI40 since he always has solid logic.
I also personally switched to 3K OCIs once my engine hit 100K miles. Oil is cheap compared to engine work......
The following 2 users liked this post by Charles Navarro:
Optionman1 (11-16-2022),
silver_tt (11-16-2022)
#455
Thank you, Charles! Interesting that Jake prefers less oil consumption potentially at the expense of higher wear. What's wrong with a little oil consumption? Case in point: My long term oil consumption actually increased when I switched to Driven DI40 in my Audi Q5 2.0T -- be that coincidence or not -- but the wear levels significantly decreased and it is still consuming less than 1 quarter per 5K miles (which is very low for this DFI turbo engine) so the increase was really at the margin rather than anything to give much attention to. Even running a high ZDDP oil that some fear can kill your cats (nonsense), I am nowhere near concerned at all at this level of consumption, you would have to be consuming a lot more oil. My cats have 110K miles on them and the readings look perfect. Curious why he cares that much about a little consumption. Thanks as always for the information.
Last edited by silver_tt; 11-16-2022 at 11:58 AM.
#456
Rennlist Member
The only other thing I do remember from years ago working with Lake was if the ester content was increased we would see an increase in oil consumption which was also affected by what fuel was used (summer vs winter, ethanol vs non-ethanol).
#457
Drifting
Lack of friction modifiers would be my guess.
The only other thing I do remember from years ago working with Lake was if the ester content was increased we would see an increase in oil consumption which was also affected by what fuel was used (summer vs winter, ethanol vs non-ethanol).
The only other thing I do remember from years ago working with Lake was if the ester content was increased we would see an increase in oil consumption which was also affected by what fuel was used (summer vs winter, ethanol vs non-ethanol).
#458
Rennlist Member
Thank you, Charles! Interesting that Jake prefers less oil consumption potentially at the expense of higher wear. What's wrong with a little oil consumption? Case in point: My long term oil consumption actually increased when I switched to Driven DI40 in my Audi Q5 2.0T -- be that coincidence or not -- but the wear levels significantly decreased and it is still consuming less than 1 quarter per 5K miles (which is very low for this DFI turbo engine) so the increase was really at the margin rather than anything to give much attention to. Even running a high ZDDP oil that some fear can kill your cats (nonsense), I am nowhere near concerned at all at this level of consumption, you would have to be consuming a lot more oil. My cats have 110K miles on them and the readings look perfect. Curious why he cares that much about a little consumption. Thanks as always for the information.
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
#459
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I run DT40 in many of my engines including a couple DFI ones with fine results.
I use DT40 in:
You can see how much better the DT40 works in it than the M1 0w40 Euro that was in it when I bought it. Copper and Iron wear is lower and viscosity is better
I use DT40 in:
- wife's 05 997 C2S at 108k miles
- daughter's new to us '12 Audi Q5 3.2L DFI v6 at 125k miles (1st oil change just done - had M1 0w40 Euro formula before from PO so will be a good comparison over the next 2 reports)
- '01 GMC Sierra c3 with 6.0L v8 at 225k miles and owned since new (no head or lifter work)
- '09 650 HP modified DFI Cayenne Turbo S - DT40 since 30k miles and now has 48k with stellar reports
You can see how much better the DT40 works in it than the M1 0w40 Euro that was in it when I bought it. Copper and Iron wear is lower and viscosity is better
#460
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#461
I really don't care about oil consumption either. My 2006 VW GTI used a quart of oil every 700 miles since it was new running Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40. Now with 140k miles on it with DT40 it finally only burns a quart in about 3k miles. Still on the original cats with no issues :-)
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
Didn't know you were taking over sales and support. You are great at working with people and if that's what Jake wants, I think it's a great move for both of you.
#462
Rennlist Member
Yup, the transition will be coming in 2023. Many who have purchased engines from Flat 6 Innovations have worked closely with Jake's OPS Manager, Jud - he'll be joining the LN team and will provide a seamless transition for existing customers and new customers will benefit from his many years at Flat 6 Innovations.
#463
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yup, the transition will be coming in 2023. Many who have purchased engines from Flat 6 Innovations have worked closely with Jake's OPS Manager, Jud - he'll be joining the LN team and will provide a seamless transition for existing customers and new customers will benefit from his many years at Flat 6 Innovations.
#464
Rennlist Member
I really don't care about oil consumption either. My 2006 VW GTI used a quart of oil every 700 miles since it was new running Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w40. Now with 140k miles on it with DT40 it finally only burns a quart in about 3k miles. Still on the original cats with no issues :-)
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
I can't speak for Jake, but one problem is that many Porsche owners are fickle and are used to seeing no oil consumption in 5,000 miles and if they even see a quart in 1,000, they start looking for problems and that leads to complaints.
And I think Jake has made it pretty clear he just wants to build engines and do R&D and not deal with people- that's why we are taking over sales and support.
Also, the criteria for A40 certification is shown below. DT40 says they meet/exceed A40 specs so do they test these same procedures to make that claim?
Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
Last edited by Carreralicious; 11-16-2022 at 02:19 PM.
#465
Rennlist Member
From a quart oil usage per 700 miles to 3000 just from changing the oil from Motul to DT40?! Is that typical? I could’ve sworn I saw a post here where someone actually burned more oil in their 997 after changing to DT40 from Motul. I went from M1 5W-50 to Motul and saw about 40% less oil usage with the Motul.
Also, the criteria for A40 certification is shown below. DT40 says they meet/exceed A40 specs so do they test these same procedures to make that claim?
Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
Also, the criteria for A40 certification is shown below. DT40 says they meet/exceed A40 specs so do they test these same procedures to make that claim?
Here is Porsche A40 testing procedure: This test will last 203 hours. The engine, and the oil, will go through: - 4 times the simulation of 35 hours of summer driving, - 4 times the simulation of 13.5 hours of winter driving, - 40 cold starts, - 5 times the simulation of 1-hour sessions on the “Nürburgring” racetrack, - 3.5 hours of “running-in” program Measurements on the engine and on the oil will be done at regular intervals, and the following parameter will be taken into account to grant the approval or not: - torque curve (internal friction), - oxidation of the oil, - Piston cleanliness and ring sticking, - Valve train wear protection. Cam & tappet wear must be less than 10 μm. - Engine cleanliness and sludge: after 203 hours, no deposits must be visible. - Bearing wear protection: visual rating according to Porsche in-house method.
With regards to the A40 testing procedure, manufacturers selling an A40 oil do not have to pay to have this testing done. What they have to do is use the approved base stocks and additives at a prescribed blend rate. That's why there is very little difference in the actual performance between A40 oils other than from gains or losses caused by viscosity, say 0w40 vs 5w40, the latter having a higher HTHS viscosity which in turn reduces wear, but decreases fuel economy.
There is no way DT40 would meet the A40 specification as they aren't constrained by the A40 specification. Used oil analysis and real world results of running DT40 (and DI40) show it is superior to its corresponding A40 or C40 oils they replace.
Long story short, the proof is in the pudding. Do used oil analysis so you can see this for yourself as others have shared.
The following users liked this post:
Stephen-LN (11-16-2022)