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Serious means serious - avoid any public spaces, any public interactions. Know that some morons will try and use their pea brains to decide for themselves that they can go out and live normally - which means it will take more like 8-12 weeks of serious isolation for the rest to truly halt this.
Unfortunately leaders in most areas are still being too reactive instead of proactive.
Another aspect of this that's been discussed but has produced little in the way of useful answers is whether or not this virus can be transmitted through food. I've heard both yes and no answers from medical "experts". Maybe the lack of agreement on this has to do with cooked food vs.uncooked food. I would assume that conking kills this virus as it does with any other virus I'm familiar with. But I saw an example of handling an avocado at a friend's house yesterday that has me wondering. He grabbed it right out of the grocery bag and put it on the cutting board, cut it in half, got the pit out and that's where I stopped him.
I told him he should rinse both the cutting board and the whole avocado before continuing. He was confused and told me he wasn't eating the peel, just what was left after the peel was gone. I asked him how many people may have squeezed that avocado after coughing or sneezing into their hands right before he picked it up at the store. All that had now been transferred to his cutting board and stayed there no matter how carefully he removed all the peel from his avocado. Same exact thing with a mango, kiwi and a bunch of other fruits and vegetables.
Cross contamination is hard to understand for a lot of people for some reason.
Another aspect of this that's been discussed but has produced little in the way of useful answers is whether or not this virus can be transmitted through food. I've heard both yes and no answers from medical "experts". Maybe the lack of agreement on this has to do with cooked food vs.uncooked food. I would assume that conking kills this virus as it does with any other virus I'm familiar with. But I saw an example of handling an avocado at a friend's house yesterday that has me wondering. He grabbed it right out of the grocery bag and put it on the cutting board, cut it in half, got the pit out and that's where I stopped him.
I told him he should rinse both the cutting board and the whole avocado before continuing. He was confused and told me he wasn't eating the peel, just what was left after the peel was gone. I asked him how many people may have squeezed that avocado after coughing or sneezing into their hands right before he picked it up at the store. All that had now been transferred to his cutting board and stayed there no matter how carefully he removed all the peel from his avocado. Same exact thing with a mango, kiwi and a bunch of other fruits and vegetables.
Cross contamination is hard to understand for a lot of people for some reason.
well if he hasnt washed Avocado before slicing through it then i bet his whole approach to handling food is gonna have to ... improve. This is pretty bad way to handle food regardless. I think there is little education about the issue still. Theyll learn.
thermal treating or freezing destroys all viruses so once thats done assume safe to eat. But i would not order take away food until those places that deliver, I dunno - say, produce some videos of disinfecting their restos and show how exactly they ensure packaged food is handled safely. From chef to delivery guy. And if they dont do this - well sorry, no orders. Happy to cook myself, at least then I Am in control of the process, hygiene etc.
well if he hasnt washed Avocado before slicing through it then i bet his whole approach to handling food is gonna have to ... improve. This is pretty bad way to handle food regardless. I think there is little education about the issue still. Theyll learn.
thermal treating or freezing destroys all viruses so once thats done assume safe to eat. But i would not order take away food until those places that deliver, I dunno - say, produce some videos of disinfecting their restos and show how exactly they ensure packaged food is handled safely. From chef to delivery guy. And if they dont do this - well sorry, no orders. Happy to cook myself, at least then I Am in control of the process, hygiene etc.
Agreed on the first paragraph.
Freezing, however, doesn't kill viruses. At least not typical freezing. Freeze/thaw/high/low heat cycles do tend to damage viruses and effectively disarm them but I would not rely on a freeze cycle alone.
Heat, on the other hand, is quite effective.
For me, I would say some foods are safer but even then if you want to go overkill there are ways -- choose delivery foods that you can easily warm to a high temp. For example, if you get pizza delivery and have them drop in front of your door. Then heat that up again in your oven to 400F for another 10-15 mins... I would think (don't know) that it would be effective.
When the experts talk about food not being a transmission source, it is under this simple assumption: 1) proper food sanitation steps and 2) no contamination after preparation. It doesn't consider the transport, handling of foods, etc.
Fresh fruits and veggies that people can touch in a grocery store or that employees handle (pretty much ALL of them) are high risk. Of course, if take extreme precaution, or if you are including those in a cooked meal, then the risk can be mitigated.
I have a mixed view of experts. I am sure many of you on here also went to ivy league schools and have friends that went to ivy league science or med programs (or their equivalents). Some are brilliant, logical, thoughtful. Many (most) are just hard working or well connected people who pursued a particular career that happened to be science or medicine. This applies to all experts - use data first, reference what experts are saying, and then apply some logic to it all.
In other words, there has been a lot of misinformation (or inconsistent info) coming even from experts over the past few weeks, and a lot of misunderstanding by those same experts of the magnitude of the risks and impact of COVID 19 (and what proportionate responses would look like)...
IMHO keep it simple and safe. Hope for the best, assume or plan for the worst, especially when the risks/benefits are so skewed.
Went for nice long spirited drive this afternoon. There's talk we will be on house lock down starting tomorrow.
Beautiful day in Seattle.
Everyone keep healthy!
I have a mixed view of experts. I am sure many of you on here also went to ivy league schools and have friends that went to ivy league science or med programs (or their equivalents). Some are brilliant, logical, thoughtful. Many (most) are just hard working or well connected people who pursued a particular career that happened to be science or medicine. This applies to all experts - use data first, reference what experts are saying, and then apply some logic to it all.
In other words, there has been a lot of misinformation (or inconsistent info) coming even from experts over the past few weeks, and a lot of misunderstanding by those same experts of the magnitude of the risks and impact of COVID 19 (and what proportionate responses would look like)...
IMHO keep it simple and safe. Hope for the best, assume or plan for the worst, especially when the risks/benefits are so skewed.
Amen brother! I go to Herp Conferences (Herp as in herpetology, not herpes) and half of my peers are full of crap and the other half are filling up the tank - me included (and you could probably say the same for academe, at least from my experience). It is not they are not brilliant or thoughtful, they are (with the exception of Dr. Pea Brain, who would, uhh, be me). We all need our egos to simply be kept in check by being slapped down every now and then, usually through peer review. No one is questioning the “experts” now, which is troubling. I’m sure many in public health are also brilliant and thoughtful people, but the one constant, unassailable fact that I have learned is that the Truth (or truth depending on how pious you are) does not go from Gods mouth to anyones ear. “May”, “could”, “indicates”, “suggests” are a few of the words that are your friends, particularly when trying to draw conclusions from incomplete data. Down the road, in a post-hoc analysis, we may thank those in public health, policy makers and to a lesser extent the media, or we may hold them accountable to some degree for the biggest over-reaction since God kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. It would disheartening to learn than we saved 100,000 lives by shutting down the world and undertaking significant debt to maintain the world economy, but 300,000 died from undiagnosed illnesses because they could not or were afraid to be diagosed or get treatment and we were too in debt to provide disaster or starvation relief to those less fortunate. If I studied moral or ethical philosophy I think this would make my head explode. Interesting times ahead for certain.
Hey fellas, just revisited this post and wanted to pass two things along.
First, social distancing of 6 feet in a park (as mentioned earlier) does little. I think NYC just said biking in a park where COVID could be airborne is not a good idea. I lived in NYC a long time ago and Central Park is not where I'd want to be biking. Same for congregating in any park near you.
Second, a long time ago Mexico was known for bacteria that gave you the runs. What Americans did was to wash their fruit and vegtables in a light bleach solution to kill what was on the outside. Say, oranges, bananas, avacados, lettuce, carrots, etc. Just make sure it's a light mix and rinse well.
Amen brother! I go to Herp Conferences (Herp as in herpetology, not herpes) and half of my peers are full of crap and the other half are filling up the tank - me included (and you could probably say the same for academe, at least from my experience). It is not they are not brilliant or thoughtful, they are (with the exception of Dr. Pea Brain, who would, uhh, be me). We all need our egos to simply be kept in check by being slapped down every now and then, usually through peer review. No one is questioning the “experts” now, which is troubling. I’m sure many in public health are also brilliant and thoughtful people, but the one constant, unassailable fact that I have learned is that the Truth (or truth depending on how pious you are) does not go from Gods mouth to anyones ear. “May”, “could”, “indicates”, “suggests” are a few of the words that are your friends, particularly when trying to draw conclusions from incomplete data. Down the road, in a post-hoc analysis, we may thank those in public health, policy makers and to a lesser extent the media, or we may hold them accountable to some degree for the biggest over-reaction since God kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. It would disheartening to learn than we saved 100,000 lives by shutting down the world and undertaking significant debt to maintain the world economy, but 300,000 died from undiagnosed illnesses because they could not or were afraid to be diagosed or get treatment and we were too in debt to provide disaster or starvation relief to those less fortunate. If I studied moral or ethical philosophy I think this would make my head explode. Interesting times ahead for certain.
That adam and eve comment. Well said.
And these "you blinked in central park and got corona" ... be reasonable, but - if you have the option to actually literally stay home for a month, I think its cool and you did your part.
Everyone just needs to stay home. There are few exceptions. For their (those who are critical workers) benefit especially, stay home.
It can be beaten if the message is received. 8-12 weeks of stay at home plus it needs to be U.S. wide, regardless of the size of local outbreaks. U.S.-centric view, of course. Then no international flights until the rest of world is under control.
For me, I would say some foods are safer but even then if you want to go overkill there are ways -- choose delivery foods that you can easily warm to a high temp. For example, if you get pizza delivery and have them drop in front of your door. Then heat that up again in your oven to 400F for another 10-15 mins... I would think (don't know) that it would be effective..
Yes - we do the same for take out pizza these days. Take it home, put the whole box and pizza and all in the oven at 220 degrees for about 20 minutes. 170 degF kills viruses.
Unfortunately, we all need to perhaps be exposed and build immunity to it, lest we become slaves residing in fear in an economically decimated society still vulnerable to it. The virus is going nowhere. When nature pegs your time . . . and the virus will likely mutate several times before a vaccine is available.
Getting back to driving . . . The wife and I and my 8 year old daughter's dog (my manly side refuses to admit publicly how much I love this little unmanly dog) enjoying a beautiful sunny day on one of the best driving road in the US (Natchez Trace Parkway).
Unfortunately, we all need to perhaps be exposed and build immunity to it, lest we become slaves residing in fear in an economically decimated society still vulnerable to it. The virus is going nowhere. When nature pegs your time . . . and the virus will likely mutate several times before a vaccine is available.
You don't need to be exposed to something that has a 2% mortality rate and build immunity. That doesn't work or make any sense.
Hopefully you are aware of the history of the Spanish Flu. If not, please do some reading.
Or read Bill Gates' assessment of the situation to get a balanced and informed view that takes into account health, economics, and morality. As well as his recommendations on how to approach this. Trying to build "herd immunity" is not one of them btw. You also cannot build herd immunity to a mutating virus - by definition.
03-23-2020, 03:18 AM
