Been following this 997 forum for a while now since getting my first 911 which is a 2010 997.2 C2. I've seen so much attention on C2S and know the BPH horsepower difference is 345 vs 385. Is there that much difference in performance between the two? I've never driven a C2S. I can put in a Tubi exhaust, maybe an intake mod and an ECU tune to make up the difference, but quite frankly when I kick in Sport Plus the C2 becomes a beast. I know I know.. not the beast of a TT but fully enough for routine driving. Should I be looking for a C2S for a better experience or upgrade the C2?

 

If you mod a C2 to get 385 HP just think what you can get from the C2S. I purchased a C2S because I wanted something more than base for my first 911 and I didn't want to spend the money for a Turbo. I don't know what the cost difference is between the C2 and C2S but for nearly 12% more HP and higher displacement (3.6 vs 3.8) it's worth it. I would recommend the C2S but it's your car and other things such available colors and options will have to be considered. No matter which one you get make sure it has Sports mode assuming it's a PDK.

 

I've owned neither one and didn't realize there was a 40 hp difference between the two. To add 40 hp with exhaust, tune, intake etc. seems like quiet a reach. Porsche does really well at squeezing all the hp available out of their engines. The best reference may be their X-51 kit which doesn't seem to be available anymore. Just checked parts on the Suncoast page and I can't find it. When it was available though it cost around $17,000 as I recall it and added about 20 hp. So it seems unlikely that you'll add double that hp for probably 1/4 of the cost of the X-51 package with the mods you mentioned. Highly doubt it can be accomplished.

If you're craving more power my hunch is that your money would be better spent on a C2S or if your budget allows a GTS which comes with the X-51 kit from the factory and brings it to 408 hp.

 

I found the difference was noticeable, especially at the low end. I had full intake, exhaust and ECU tune on my C2S and picked up roughly 25 hp and it was all at the top end. That cost $8k, which is a hell of a lot for 25 hp.

 

What you get from the S is the horsepower, brakes and 19" wheels. For someone who isn't going to track it or really pushing the car, you're not going to really notice it. If you're daily driving the car on bad roads (like me), you'll prefer getting 18" wheels anyway.

That said, if you're going to pay for performance upgrades (intake, exhaust, tuning and big brake kit) then you're better off just getting the S in that these won't be lost investments when you go to resell the car at some point.

 

Yes but still beats the hell out of $17,000 for 20 hp. I think what you did is the most hp per $ I've read about here. Only thing about these tunes is that if your car is under any kind of warranty you may or will most likely end up with "discussions" if something comes apart.

 

After having my GTS for a few years now I can say for certain that things other than HP make the biggest difference between Carrera models. If I had a base 997.2 I'd be looking to upgrade suspension, get lighter wheels, and an LSD before trying to mod for more HP or upgrading to another Carrera. I don't think my car accelerating more quickly is what drives my enjoyment of it more than the Carrera and Carrera S that I've driven. Its the additional feedback from a good alignment, sports suspension, lighter wheels, and LSD. The X51 engine is a peach, for sure. But starting out with a base Carrera with those other items addressed would make the enjoyment closer than just more horsepower.

Plus starting out with a base Carrera, then working on improving the other bits is the same formula Porsche used for the new Carrera T... which they market as being a "purist" model. Take that bit for what you will.

If you are going to end up upgrading to a C2S or more... you can help yourself by paying attention to what performance options the car has, since that makes a big difference. By the time I was done selecting "must have" performance options getting the GTS made sense.. but a C2S with Sport PASM and an X51 engine would be ideal otherwise

 

As a daily driver you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference. C2S really shines having bigger 350mm brakes and most of those cars do come with other performance options already selected by original owners, such as PASM and PSE. It all comes down to individual car, condition, mileage and of course price. I have a 2011 C2 and it was a conscious decision to get this particular car because of the options and stellar condition it was in. I'm pulling myself back in terms of upgrades not to cross the logical line when I'd just be better off getting a GTS. With that in mind, I've installed Sharkwerks center muffle delete cross-pipe and doing some suspension upgrades (spacers, sways bars, springs and toe links) to support 3-4 track events per year. I'm not a big fan of ECU tuning but there are some decent power gains if you go down that route. There is about $10-12K difference in prices on C2 and C2S. Its about $15-20K spread between C2 and GTS. So keep that in mind as you budget for upgrades. Fun and pleasure of upgrading aside, anything that costs >50% of price difference between the models will likely end up as a lost investment. My 2 cents.

 

The brakes were the deciding factor for me. I do track the car and to be able to swap pads without removing the caliper is very convenient.

 

Great point, ColoradoMark.

 

There’s a straight side-by-side comparison starting at the 2m33s mark.


This and other reviews are listed here.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...l-reviews.html

Karl.

 

Lots of good detail and advice here. Thanks everybody . The video WJK posted answered my original question, not enough difference between Base and S to justify 20-30 + hp $$$ upgrades with questionable results. Maybe cross pipes but for sound not power. I'm sure there's some punch missing not having the S but after adding Sport/Sport Plus I gained a lot of driving excitement.
911 GTS definitely in the picture next year.

 

Dyno proven 25 HP?

 

That was a computer estimate based on readings taken from sensors by the shop that did the ECU tune, not on a dyno. I did not ask for a more detailed explanation. It wasn't enough of an increase to care about.

 

Why did you do $8k mods if you didnt care about the increase?

And you said the difference was noticeable at the low end but the gains (or rather computer estimated gains?) were on the high end?