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1st time buyer - Insights needed

 
Old 04-15-2019, 07:57 PM
  #1  
Westside997
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Default 1st time buyer - Insights needed

Hey, new guy here. I figured I'd come to the Rennlist mountain top to ask you flat-6 Buddhas how to Porsche myself properly.

It's time to spice up my life up a bit, so looking for a new (used) car and I think I've settled on a getting a 2006-2007 Carrera S. My budget is around +/- $35K, so I think that's what I can afford in the 911 platform. Thought about a Cayman for a hot second, but have always loved the 911 silhouette.

I'm trying to do all the requisite research I can, and I hope I'm getting a handle on such fun topics like IMS (pre-2005.5 cars?) and cylinder scoring (high performance driving/ track related?). No need to get into that here, plenty of other threads to read on that.

I live in LA so seriously considering a Tiptronic given the traffic in this town. I've got an old race-prepped car if I want to bang though gears in the canyons, and I don't think I'll be doing track days in this one. I just need to be able to downshift for some spirited driving on occasion. Any horror stories about Tips for these years? I've tried to research but not coming up with much, which seems like a good sign?

Would I be correct in thinking these engines should be able to hit 200k miles? Or is buying a car with 85K miles a suicide mission? I drive around 7k miles per year so I'm not going to be putting down major miles.

What are average engine life span stats before major service? Now that I'm thinking of it, when does the timing chain(?) need replacing? 100K?

I'm finding the hardest thing is comparing two cars to one another given the amount of option packages/ wheels available. Not sure how you can help me with that but it's clouding my ability value a car properly.
i.e. What's utility/ value of the Chrono package on a 2006-2007?

I'm tracking cars here on Rennlist, as well as Craigslist, AutoTrader, BAT, and PCARMarket. Any others I should be aware of?

I'll continue my education in the archives, but what else am I missing?

Thanks for helping me get up to speed. Your time is appreciated.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:23 PM
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kellen
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For 35k I would try to find a 997.1 S model. Low miles would be greater but history of service is more important.

Won't get into automatic vs. manual. Don't know how to drive an automatic.....

Hitting 200k with a 997 isn't seen that much from my experience, even with an engine rebuild. Some drivers here have 150k on theirs, but if any 200k cars they are few and far between from my eyes. Likely from people not choosing a small sports coupe with more harsh ride to log extended miles.

I would research what options you can live, live without. Full leather, sport chrono, colors, auto/manual, then go from there. Either way make sure to get a PPI to ensure no issues, if that worried can consider a bore scoping procedure.

Only other thing I don't see is maintenance. These can be extremely reliable vehicles but like all vehicles need work done on them from time to time. Cheaper if you can or are able to do things yourself but still there are things you likely can't. Tires are $1000-1600 for a full set, prob need rears at 10k, fronts at double depending on driving, water pump at 60-80k, spark plugs, ignition coils, etc. Thing to remember is while they are now 35k cars, they were at one time 100k cars and also a luxury brand that will require more expensive parts and maintenance. I put $250 a month away automatically and use it for maintenance and upgrades and that has always served me fine.

All said its the most fun car I've ever driven. Will never drive something else or will at least have on in the garage.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:49 PM
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Only been an owner since end of march of a beautiful 997 Targa 4 and had been daily searching for the right car since early november, meanwhile learning tons of stuff along the way.

What I have found is that, although I was dead set on a tiptronic also, the 3 cars I have test driven with this option fealth very sluggish, almost like I was pulling a trailer or the e-brake was partially on.

The 6 speed stick o the other hand, is flowing like butter. And although I hadn't been shifting gears myself for over 12 years, the 997 made me feel like I had never stopped. I find the manual tranny very permissive and easy to go through gears.

I too was looking for an auto because of traffic, but someone here suggested that I put the car in neutral with my foot off the clutch while traffic is standing still and that right there changed everything. Bumper to bumper traffic is not an annoyance at all.

As for mileage, the lower mileage cars also known as garage queens should be avoided since the sitting oil and prolonged storage are supposedly partly responsible for some failures.

Ideally, you should look for a well maintained car that was regularly used and therefore have proven to be reliable. I would say 70000 to 90000 miles would be in the fair mileage zone where you have a good balanced of use/years considering a succesfull PPi.

Good luck in your search and congrats on your new car to come.

Cheers.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:30 PM
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Westside997
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Originally Posted by kellen View Post
For 35k I would try to find a 997.1 S model. Low miles would be greater but history of service is more important.

Won't get into automatic vs. manual. Don't know how to drive an automatic.....

Hitting 200k with a 997 isn't seen that much from my experience, even with an engine rebuild. Some drivers here have 150k on theirs, but if any 200k cars they are few and far between from my eyes. Likely from people not choosing a small sports coupe with more harsh ride to log extended miles.

I would research what options you can live, live without. Full leather, sport chrono, colors, auto/manual, then go from there. Either way make sure to get a PPI to ensure no issues, if that worried can consider a bore scoping procedure.

Only other thing I don't see is maintenance. These can be extremely reliable vehicles but like all vehicles need work done on them from time to time. Cheaper if you can or are able to do things yourself but still there are things you likely can't. Tires are $1000-1600 for a full set, prob need rears at 10k, fronts at double depending on driving, water pump at 60-80k, spark plugs, ignition coils, etc. Thing to remember is while they are now 35k cars, they were at one time 100k cars and also a luxury brand that will require more expensive parts and maintenance. I put $250 a month away automatically and use it for maintenance and upgrades and that has always served me fine.

All said its the most fun car I've ever driven. Will never drive something else or will at least have on in the garage.
Yep, increased insurance costs, tires, regular service are part of the expectation. I'll likely do most of the maintenance myself, assuming I won't need to buy a one-time $1,000 special tool to accomplish it. $250 a month seems like a fair number all things considered.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:33 PM
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The tiptronic is a solid transmission. It is hampered by only having 5 speeds, so it's at a disadvantage.You will notice it most in the base models. But in a 997.1 C2S, it should be fine. If you are willing to look at higher mileage cars, you should consider a 997.2.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:35 PM
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Default I found a well documented 2009 PDK car for 30K!

The car had the second owner that commuted from Portland to SanFran and put 65K in 4.5 years but with all service done at Porsche intervals and the Owner after kept good records too! Bought the car with 105K on it .
had the PPI done even after the previous owner just had a 105K service completed and only drove another 500miles after .I ended up flying in to Portland having the PPI done and mounting a new set of tires doing a 4 wheel align and balance , new plugs , new trans fluid, new drive belt as these items did not show in the service records . Not all Indy records report to carafe and not all cars have all the records with the sale . I planned on driving the car back some 1200 miles in late January and all went Fantastic! The PDK is a big upgrade in performance .



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Old 04-15-2019, 10:55 PM
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Westside997
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Originally Posted by Steph1 View Post
Only been an owner since end of march of a beautiful 997 Targa 4 and had been daily searching for the right car since early november, meanwhile learning tons of stuff along the way.

What I have found is that, although I was dead set on a tiptronic also, the 3 cars I have test driven with this option fealth very sluggish, almost like I was pulling a trailer or the e-brake was partially on.

The 6 speed stick o the other hand, is flowing like butter. And although I hadn't been shifting gears myself for over 12 years, the 997 made me feel like I had never stopped. I find the manual tranny very permissive and easy to go through gears.

I too was looking for an auto because of traffic, but someone here suggested that I put the car in neutral with my foot off the clutch while traffic is standing still and that right there changed everything. Bumper to bumper traffic is not an annoyance at all.

As for mileage, the lower mileage cars also known as garage queens should be avoided since the sitting oil and prolonged storage are supposedly partly responsible for some failures.

Ideally, you should look for a well maintained car that was regularly used and therefore have proven to be reliable. I would say 70000 to 90000 miles would be in the fair mileage zone where you have a good balanced of use/years considering a succesfull PPi.

Good luck in your search and congrats on your new car to come.

Cheers.
I've driven sticks for 30+ years but after driving an automatic for the last few years I must say it's been nothing less than delightful. Boring as all hell, but delightful. That said, when I think of a 911 I certainly don't think "automatic", so I'm a bit torn on this. From what I've read today about the PDK that might be the way to go after a few years when the prices come down.

I'm not completely worried about resale value, but let's say I buy a 2006 CS with 80-90k miles on it for $35,000k. 5 years from now I'll have added 40k miles. What am I selling a CS for?
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aeromat209 View Post
The car had the second owner that commuted from Portland to SanFran and put 65K in 4.5 years but with all service done at Porsche intervals and the Owner after kept good records too! Bought the car with 105K on it .
had the PPI done even after the previous owner just had a 105K service completed and only drove another 500miles after .I ended up flying in to Portland having the PPI done and mounting a new set of tires doing a 4 wheel align and balance , new plugs , new trans fluid, new drive belt as these items did not show in the service records . Not all Indy records report to carafe and not all cars have all the records with the sale . I planned on driving the car back some 1200 miles in late January and all went Fantastic! The PDK is a big upgrade in performance .
Nice find!
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The tiptronic is a solid transmission. It is hampered by only having 5 speeds, so it's at a disadvantage.You will notice it most in the base models. But in a 997.1 C2S, it should be fine. If you are willing to look at higher mileage cars, you should consider a 997.2.
Wait, shouldn't the 997.2's have lower miles since they are newer?
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:39 AM
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I've only owned my '07 C2S for a month now, so I'm not an expert by any means. However, since I searched high and low nationwide for the better part of 2 months (longer if you include casually looking), I can hopefully add some insight on the current market.

If you want a 997.1 with a tip, it shouldn't be as competitive, and you should be able to save a few thousand on a tip vs. a similarly equipped MT. In general, coupes and manuals demand more money. There are some here who think you can get a clean .2 in the mid-high $30k's. I disagree. If your budget is $35k, my advice would be to find a clean .1 that has been well maintained and has the options you want.

Regarding options, you're right, you'll see all sorts of combos. Figure out your must-have's, and narrow your search down that way. The more flexible you are on colors and options, the more candidates you'll come across. Be prepared to wait a few months (or longer) to find your car depending on how specific you are and how far you're willing to search from home.

As far as longevity goes, I don't believe these to be 200k mile engines. As you've probably read here, there are steps you can take (5k mile/6-month oil change intervals, better oil, letting it warm up properly before getting into it, better quality gas, etc.) to extend the life of your engine, but these aren't Toyota's. With that said, there is no reason you shouldn't expect to get years of worry free enjoyment putting 7k miles on it a year and starting with a well-maintained 997 with around 80k or 90k miles.

One other site you should check out is Porsche Club of America (PCA). You can join as a "Test Drive" member witch will give you the ability to search and respond to classified ads there. Other than that, you're searching the right sites. Just be prepared to jump when the right one comes along. The good ones go fast. And regardless of who/where you buy it from, a good PPI is always advised.

Oh, and lastly, when you get your 997, don't drink and surf Suncoast Parts with your credit card within arms reach. Ask me how I know.

Good luck and keep us posted....
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Westside997 View Post
Wait, shouldn't the 997.2's have lower miles since they are newer?
I think what Balr14 was implying is you can buy a high-mileage .2 for low mileage .1 money. My budget was $45k for a C2S with a MT, and I didn't find any .2's that were a fit. Just my experience.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Aeromat209 View Post
The car had the second owner that commuted from Portland to SanFran and put 65K in 4.5 years but with all service done at Porsche intervals and the Owner after kept good records too! Bought the car with 105K on it .
had the PPI done even after the previous owner just had a 105K service completed and only drove another 500miles after .I ended up flying in to Portland having the PPI done and mounting a new set of tires doing a 4 wheel align and balance , new plugs , new trans fluid, new drive belt as these items did not show in the service records . Not all Indy records report to carafe and not all cars have all the records with the sale . I planned on driving the car back some 1200 miles in late January and all went Fantastic! The PDK is a big upgrade in performance .



This is exactly what I would look for with a 911 budget in the $30K range. Coupe or cab. With a 2009 you eliminate the IMS issue altogether and the PDK while similar to the Tiptronic is in a whole different league actually being a manual transmission lacking that third pedal. The Tiptronic is almost bulletproof (built by Mercedes I believe) but it's still a traditional automatic with all its shortcomings. So in sum, the IMS problem wasn't completely resolved until MY 2009 which also came with the PDK instead of the TIP. Again, TIP failures are seldom heard of while PDK failures do occur and they're costly if you're out of warranty.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:41 AM
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Quote
I'm not completely worried about resale value, but let's say I buy a 2006 CS with 80-90k miles on it for $35,000k. 5 years from now I'll have added 40k miles. What am I selling a CS for?[/QUOTE]

Well, even if the too low mileage cars are not so enviable, they do command a price premium, and that is just logical. So you will pay some 5-10k less for one with a bit more a mileage, therefore it will probably sync the value of the car, making for the same drop in price.

So in the end, you pay less because of the mileage, and you'll sell for less for the same reasons.
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by G.I.G. View Post

.....Oh, and lastly, when you get your 997, don't drink and surf Suncoast Parts with your credit card within arms reach. Ask me how I know.
Hahaha welp, I'm screwed now! Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by G.I.G. View Post
I think what Balr14 was implying is you can buy a high-mileage .2 for low mileage .1 money. My budget was $45k for a C2S with a MT, and I didn't find any .2's that were a fit. Just my experience.
Ah, sometimes my brain is on a dimmer... makes total sense, thanks.
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