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Buying 997.2 Sight-Unseen

 
Old 02-07-2019, 01:59 PM
  #31  
jazz11man1
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Originally Posted by IMPorsche View Post
I was looking at the exact same car a few months back. It was listed on eBay for a few round but didn't sell. Owner claimed he is the 2nd owner and bought the car off a 2-yr lease at 18k.

The good:
had ppi at time when he purchased the car - ppi indicated curb rash on wheels

The bad:
Part of the ppi report he sent was cut off , I requested to resend and get no response.
40k service not done
no carfax
Text owner/seller and received no response
Tires are mystery. owner stated not original tires but refused to answer if he changed the tires after purchase or how many miles on the tires. Instead referred me to tire thread info on the ppi report and stated they are in really good condition.
Seller never response to text when I requested an in person inspection.

Let me know if there is anything else that I could help.
Interesting. Yeah, I saw that it was listed on Ebay, but hadn't sold, which raised a red flag.

It seems like I've had better luck interacting with the seller. He shared the year and make of the tires (2014/15 Bridgestone Potenzas) and is open to having someone take a look at it as well as me having another PPI done. However, I was also only given crops of the PPI report, one showing the summary stating that the car is in good shape other than (i) curb rash on each wheel, (ii) scrape/torn area at bottom of front bummer, (iii) small chips on body and windshield. I spoke with Princeton Porsche, but since I didn't pay for the PPI, they weren't willing to share details but did say that the issues that I mentioned aren't uncommon for a car this old.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:00 PM
  #32  
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The PPI was done at Princeton Porsche, but it is a private seller.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:11 PM
  #33  
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I would never buy a used sports car sight unseen. I bought my Porsche cross country, but I spoke with the dealer many times, as well as the mechanic that inspected the car. That gave me confidence to fly in to see the car. Worse case scenario I uber back to the airport and buy a one way ticket home. Thankfully the car was as described and I ended up driving it home the almost 20 hour trek!
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:25 PM
  #34  
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If your OCD about condition do yourself a favor and make time to view it, relying on other people's opinions about what they consider good or bad may not be the way to go, especially on a darker paint car. Be sure to view it in a variety of lighting conditions. I looked at a car in shade and it looked great, brought it into sunlight and it had the heaviest spiderwebbing and hologramming I have ever seen.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:13 PM
  #35  
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I've bought a few cars sight unseen but they were great deals and I was mentally prepared for surprises. There will always be surprises if you do not see it for yourself no matter how well it's represented.

Originally Posted by voiceprint1 View Post
If your OCD about condition do yourself a favor and make time to view it, relying on other people's opinions about what they consider good or bad may not be the way to go, especially on a darker paint car. Be sure to view it in a variety of lighting conditions. I looked at a car in shade and it looked great, brought it into sunlight and it had the heaviest spiderwebbing and hologramming I have ever seen.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:03 PM
  #36  
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I've bought a number of cars sight unseen, including four 997s (a C2, C4, and two GT3s). Some of these experiences have been good and others not so good, but, in each case, I was willing to take the risk. Drawing on one of those experiences, in particular, I would not rely on a PPI performed by the seller or by anyone other than yourself. I would find a shop that has the needed expertise, scope the PPI (boroscope, paint meter, leakdown, etc.), and talk to the tech about his/her time with the car and any areas of concern that you've developed from pictures or your conversations with the seller. I would also use Carfax as just a single data point, not a definitive indication that the car has not been bent/painted. Good luck.
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:57 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by zdet View Post
I've bought a number of cars sight unseen, including four 997s (a C2, C4, and two GT3s). Some of these experiences have been good and others not so good, but, in each case, I was willing to take the risk. Drawing on one of those experiences, in particular, I would not rely on a PPI performed by the seller or by anyone other than yourself. I would find a shop that has the needed expertise, scope the PPI (boroscope, paint meter, leakdown, etc.), and talk to the tech about his/her time with the car and any areas of concern that you've developed from pictures or your conversations with the seller. I would also use Carfax as just a single data point, not a definitive indication that the car has not been bent/painted. Good luck.
Thanks. Yes, I would do my own PPI and have found a few places recommended on rennlist as well as by mjsporsche in the area. Are scope and paint meter tests typically standard with a PPI or are they additional? Should I also ask for a compression test (one shop quoted me an additional $250)?
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:02 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by jazz11man1 View Post


Thanks. Yes, I would do my own PPI and have found a few places recommended on rennlist as well as by mjsporsche in the area. Are scope and paint meter tests typically standard with a PPI or are they additional? Should I also ask for a compression test (one shop quoted me an additional $250)?
Those are usually extra. The boroscope also isn't all that useful unless done from the bottom side of the engine after removing the sump plate as scoring initiates at the bottom. You could have scoring in the cylinders that has already started and not be able to see it by scoping through the spark plug holes. If the owner is unwilling to let you pull the sump plate (I know I wouldn't want this done as a part of a PPI on a car I was selling and create the potential for a future oil leak) and all you're able to do is scope through the plug holes, then you might as well do a compression test too since they're going to be pulling each plug, and you might as well have them install new ones when they put them back. Maybe the owner will split this with you. If you don't buy the car, he only paid half for new plugs and has a nice selling perk, and if you do buy the car, you just got new plugs at half price. I worked this out with both my sellers.

That being said, if the engine isn't misfiring, you likely don't have a compression issue.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:30 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Petza914 View Post
Those are usually extra. The boroscope also isn't all that useful unless done from the bottom side of the engine after removing the sump plate as scoring initiates at the bottom. You could have scoring in the cylinders that has already started and not be able to see it by scoping through the spark plug holes. If the owner is unwilling to let you pull the sump plate (I know I wouldn't want this done as a part of a PPI on a car I was selling and create the potential for a future oil leak) and all you're able to do is scope through the plug holes, then you might as well do a compression test too since they're going to be pulling each plug, and you might as well have them install new ones when they put them back. Maybe the owner will split this with you. If you don't buy the car, he only paid half for new plugs and has a nice selling perk, and if you do buy the car, you just got new plugs at half price. I worked this out with both my sellers.

That being said, if the engine isn't misfiring, you likely don't have a compression issue.
Hmm, that’s an interesting idea. Ideally the decision to replace the plugs would be conditioned on the results of the rest of the PPI.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:36 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jazz11man1 View Post


Hmm, that’s an interesting idea. Ideally the decision to replace the plugs would be conditioned on the results of the rest of the PPI.
Sure. Do everything else first and save that until the end. If everything else checks out, proceed with the compression test boroscope, and plug renewal. Maybe buy the owner (or you) a new oil filter too so the media can be inspected for any metal or plastic, though on the .2 DFI cars, I'm not sure how easily the filter can be removed and how much oil is lost in the process. On the .1s, it's easy without much mess, but the .2 filter is on with the opening at the bottom, not the top.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:44 AM
  #41  
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Do yourself a favor and have a third party PPI done on the car. If the results are good, and you are still interested in the car; fly out and put eyes on it. I bought a car from Porsche Plano, and decided not to have a PPI because the car came with a CPO and was being sold by a Porsche Dealer . . . . . . the car was NOT truly inspected by the dealer . The service department "pencil whipped" the inspection pages, and the salesperson lied about the car's condition. The car had several significant flaws, and 2 glaring safety issues. Had I had the PPI and looked at the car in person, I would have avoided a poor purchase. I had the car delivered to me 1,000 miles away, so . . . . . lessons learned; always have a PPI and put eyes on the car prior to a purchase.

My second Porsche, PPI and live viewing ensured a Happy Purchase - well worth the plane ticket to view the vehicle.

These steps will help ensure that you will love your new Porsche.

Enjoy -
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:23 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jazz11man1 View Post
Thanks. He said that he did most if not all of the maintenance since he bought the car and that it wasn't anything more than routine oil changes, etc. In other words, no paperwork (unless he has receipts for the oil, etc.).

He sent me a video as well as additional pictures of the exterior and interior, which (perhaps not surprisingly) show little wear (possibly a slight crease on the driver's side seat).
I've bought two E46 M3's and my current GTS sight unseen. All three had these things in common: Dealer maintained and serviced with all of it documented both in print and on Carfax. PPI done by a reputable shop and cars still under factory warranty. With those conditions met I have no problem buying sight unseen and it hasn't failed me yet. The guy you're dealing with doing all the maintenance himself, perhaps with random receipts of oil and filter would not do it for me. There's more than changing oil involved in the stipulated service intervals and I would prefer to have records of a Porsche dealership doing those. But that's just one man's opinion. Depending on how you feel about what this seller is telling you and what he can produce in terms of maint. records, use your gut instinct and go from there.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:44 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Dymag View Post
Do yourself a favor and have a third party PPI done on the car. If the results are good, and you are still interested in the car; fly out and put eyes on it. I bought a car from Porsche Plano, and decided not to have a PPI because the car came with a CPO and was being sold by a Porsche Dealer . . . . . . the car was NOT truly inspected by the dealer . The service department "pencil whipped" the inspection pages, and the salesperson lied about the car's condition.
Common train of thought it seems. CPO, sold by a Porsche dealer.....no PPI needed. This horror story related to this exact thinking has been posted many times before but is worth repeating since the CPO, reputable dealer seller = No PPI needed perception is still widely accepted.

Here. Epic thread (50 + pages as I recall it) that did irreparable damage to the second largest volume Porsche dealership in the US. They probably haven't even noticed in the end of year sales results but so crazily, poorly handled it's hard to believe. https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-poor-car.html
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:35 AM
  #44  
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2010 Carrera S 6M 140K Miles

I bought mine site from a dealer 2 states over. I closely considered about 3 others before I pulled the trigger.

You (not the dealer/owner) REALLY NEED to pick an independent garage that knows 911's to do an inspection. Do not be bashful about expecting this to be done, but you will have to pay for it. Do not buy a used 911 without an inspection. Mine needed about $1,600 worth of work that the dealer agreed to pay for. I flushed out a couple of 997.1's with various big problems.

I am happy with mine.

BTW, if this is your first 911, not all mechanics are qualified for this. Make sure they know Porsches. Also, ask them to check the over-revs. (Knock on Wood) the 997.2 has been a great car. With mine being high mileage, I think I am breaking ground a lot in this forum. Which goes to say, not much breaks on these engines if they are maintained. But mine is old and I am learning how to do much of the work myself, so I am here not infrequently.

I daily drive mine, putting on 48k miles in less than three years. Also, I think I could sell mine (based on AutoTrader) for very close to what I paid for it. Which tells me that the prices are starting to rise on the 997.2 as people understand what a gem it is.

It is a good car, but still a Porsche. This week I paid to get a new clutch and flywheel - gulp.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:19 AM
  #45  
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Bought mine sight unseen and was pleasantly surprised as it was in better condition than pictures could do it justice.
Saw mine, tracked it for a while at dealership 300 miles away. It was the exact spec and optioned well. While searching, the dealer had dropped the price (bough in dead of winter) so I secured the financing.

Called the dealer, they agree to take to an Independent Porsche shop for a PPI. Talked with the PPI shop about the car and they did a engine DME report, full once over and said it was good to go.
The same say I put down a deposit with the dealership. The next week drove down and it picked it up.
Granted here are the things I did prior to the sight unseen purchase:

Researched the VIN.
Checked the CARFAX.
Called previous dealership from it about service history.
Pulled the build sheet from Vinanalytics and bumped the options to the ad/pictures of the car.
Had a PPI done with a few points of interest (clutch/leaks/DME)

With everything sound, I pulled the trigger and very happy Porsche owner now!
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