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Right. But, take a look at the other side. 997.2 pdk is more powerful (30 hp) more technologically advanced and more lightweight and the difference is not significant.
In other words: in terms of Porsche, Tiptronic s 997.1 is considered to be fast in relation to time 2005-2008.
How can someone who talks about using the Tip on a track in one sentence then post in another sentence that the difference between the .1 Tip and .2 PDK is insignificant? You're talking about more than a full second 0-60 and 2 seconds 0-100 - that margin is an eternity on a track where races are won in tenths of seconds. After a race of any length with 2 drivers of equal capability, the guy driving the PDK .2 would be sitting at the bar having his second drink while the other is still working his way to the checkered flag - LOL
1st choice - MT
2nd choice - PDK
sorry, but there isn't a 3rd choice when it comes to driving enjoyment or performance.
How can someone who talks about using the Tip on a track in one sentence then post in another sentence that the difference between the .1 Tip and .2 PDK is insignificant? You're talking about more than a full second 0-60 and 2 seconds 0-100 - that margin is an eternity on a track where races are won in tenths of seconds. After a race of any length with 2 drivers of equal capability, the guy driving the PDK .2 would be sitting at the bar having his second drink while the other is still working his way to the checkered flag - LOL
1st choice - MT
2nd choice - PDK
sorry, but there isn't a 3rd choice when it comes to driving enjoyment or performance.
This is your personal opinion - LOL
But, I can not figure out what you are against TIP S?
This is an excellent transmission system. As of that period.
Obviously it can not be compared to PDK?!?
There is no doubt that the PDK is faster. The reason I presented the comparison is to show why TIP S is good for that period.
Still. Even in relation to the manual transmission system. TIP S (in D mode). Shows excellent track times!
Sorry friend. But there is no "first choice" or "second choice."
The choice is: Manual or steering control (hands on steering wheel).
997.1 TIP S or M (personal preference)
997.2 PDK or M (personal preference)
Everyone. All 911. Suitable for track (M, tip s, pdk)
A good driver with TIP S can easily win a good driver with a manual transmission system. TIP S in manual mode shows identical times. (Although it is more heavy at 70 pounds).
And we're back to referencing the article that only compares it in a Turbo car, where we all agree that because of the gear ratios and the Tips ability to keep the car in boost during the gear change that in a turbo car, it doesn't degrade the performance as much. You can't keep bouncing back and forth between comparisons of Turbo vs non-Turbo because you have a non-turbo, and the only article that had anything good to say about Tip is restricted to when it's in a Turbo.
Originally Posted by f911
But, I can not figure out what you are against TIP S?
Umm, let's see.
It makes a higher HP & torque, larger displacement car (an S) slower on every single test than the lower HP, lower torque, lower displacment base car (non-S),
gear shifts are noticeable slow where you press the button and wait for it to occur, entering a corner,
you can't skp gears and go from 4th to 2nd under heavy braking, without going to 3rd on the way by,
it's not as engaging or involving to drive,
etc
etc
etc
Originally Posted by f911
A good driver with TIP S can easily win a good driver with a manual transmission system. TIP S in manual mode shows identical times. (Although it is more heavy at 70 pounds).
Sorry, not a chance. A skilled driver doing laps in identical cars with only the transmission being different will be much, much faster in the MT car, even with 1 hand on the wheel and 1 hand on the shift lever.
Just because in both the Tip and PDK the driver can have both hands on the wheel does not make them comparable - lots of crappy sedans from the 90s and early 2000s had shift control buttons on the steering wheel for their torque converter automatic transmissions, which is what the Tip is, but that doesn't make them cars that should be driven on the track.
Show me an article or in-car footage of any serious Porsche racer from the 993, 996, or 997.1 era choosing to equip his race car with a Tiptronic transmission rather than a MT. Hurley Haywood, Derek Bell, Walter Rohrl, anyone - crickets - that's what I thought.
As I said in an earlier post, the only reason to choose a Tip car is because you can't drive or don't want a MT and you can't afford the trade-up to the PDK generation. It's not a transmisison that should be in a 911, and even Porsche realized that so they came out with the more advanced PDK. They then found out that they also need to keep the MT alive when they dropped it in the 991.1 GT3 and had to bring it back in the 991.2 GT3 to keep the purists happy - I don't recall seeing them bring back the Tip to keep anyone happy.
I'm glad you love your car and transmission so much, but am now done with this thread as I'm tired of
And we're back to referencing the article that only compares it in a Turbo car, where we all agree that because of the gear ratios and the Tips ability to keep the car in boost during the gear change that in a turbo car, it doesn't degrade the performance as much. You can't keep bouncing back and forth between comparisons of Turbo vs non-Turbo because you have a non-turbo, and the only article that had anything good to say about Tip is restricted to when it's in a Turbo.
Umm, let's see.
It makes a higher HP & torque, larger displacement car (an S) slower on every single test than the lower HP, lower torque, lower displacment base car (non-S),
gear shifts are noticeable slow where you press the button and wait for it to occur, entering a corner,
you can't skp gears and go from 4th to 2nd under heavy braking, without going to 3rd on the way by,
it's not as engaging or involving to drive,
etc
etc
etc
Sorry, not a chance. A skilled driver doing laps in identical cars with only the transmission being different will be much, much faster in the MT car, even with 1 hand on the wheel and 1 hand on the shift lever.
Just because in both the Tip and PDK the driver can have both hands on the wheel does not make them comparable - lots of crappy sedans from the 90s and early 2000s had shift control buttons on the steering wheel for their torque converter automatic transmissions, which is what the Tip is, but that doesn't make them cars that should be driven on the track.
Show me an article or in-car footage of any serious Porsche racer from the 993, 996, or 997.1 era choosing to equip his race car with a Tiptronic transmission rather than a MT. Hurley Haywood, Derek Bell, Walter Rohrl, anyone - crickets - that's what I thought.
As I said in an earlier post, the only reason to choose a Tip car is because you can't drive or don't want a MT and you can't afford the trade-up to the PDK generation. It's not a transmisison that should be in a 911, and even Porsche realized that so they came out with the more advanced PDK. They then found out that they also need to keep the MT alive when they dropped it in the 991.1 GT3 and had to bring it back in the 991.2 GT3 to keep the purists happy - I don't recall seeing them bring back the Tip to keep anyone happy.
I'm glad you love your car and transmission so much, but am now done with this thread as I'm tired of
And always the same people who defy the tiptronic. And probably also never used a car with tiptronic s in carrera s. I used everything (most of the years in a manual car). Simply sharing my experience after driving a year with tiptronic s. What's going on ?!?!
And always the same people who defy the tiptronic. And probably also never used a car with tiptronic s in carrera s. I used everything (most of the years in a manual car). Simply sharing my experience after driving a year with tiptronic s. What's going on ?!?!
tip (not tip s) race cup car:
I bought a tip 997S and I also have a DSG Audi S5 and have had multiple MT porsches, bmws, and Audis.
I like the Tip because I personally just never liked Porsche clutches that much and this is my around town fun car not a track toy so I went tip.
I'll be the first to admit its not very performance oriented at all. It is not as fast to shift compared to how I can shift a MT car. It holds revs insanely long in sport mode (the only way I drive the car) and then all the sudden upshifts when you may have actually been ready to finally go into the corner and not wanted that upshift. It is slow to downshift and appears to think a second which gear to summon.
That said, I do enjoy the car with it for its friendly nature in traffic and general ability to "get the job done" in shifting. Its just not a performance oriented transmission and it does rob the car of significant acceleration.
Do I wish it was a PDK? Absolutely I do. But Ive also wanted a 997.1S factory aero package car for a long time and that mattered to me more so it is what it is.
And always the same people who defy the tiptronic. And probably also never used a car with tiptronic s in carrera s. I used everything (most of the years in a manual car). Simply sharing my experience after driving a year with tiptronic s. What's going on ?!?!
tip (not tip s) race cup car:
Tried to find that article, and instead found more "great car except for the transmission" reviews - here's one:
Was curious about your article since I greatly respect Walter Rohrl's capabilites and opinions, and did end up finding the one you posted that references Walter Rohrl. Posting the photo of the article is great, but did you actually read it - he and it say everything the rest of us have been trying to convey to you - maybe you'll listen to him?
Here's the link to the opening spread of the article along with the verbiage from the opening page, copied large enough to read. You can tell how the rest of it goes from that first page - all politically correct comments and justifications. Even the great Sir Walter started 6th and couldn't finish higher than 21st because of the transmission.
Was curious about your article since I greatly respect Walter Rohrl's capabilites and opinions, and did end up finding the one you posted that references Walter Rohrl. Posting the photo of the article is great, but did you actually read it - he and it say everything the rest of us have been trying to convey to you - maybe you'll listen to him?
Here's the link to the opening spread of the article along with the verbiage from the opening page, copied large enough to read. You can tell how the rest of it goes from that first page - all politically correct comments and justifications. Even the great Sir Walter started 6th and couldn't finish higher than 21st because of the transmission.
Maybe this will finally put an end to your "Great Tiptronic" threads.
vice versa. This reinforces my argument. Porsche improved the tiptronic transmission system. The manufacturer is Mercedes. The computer's latest tiptronic s (997.1) is very smart. This transmission system is well designed and very reliable. Improve over the years. And PDK has replaced the tiptronic s and continues with advanced technology. It is written in all articles. That's what happened in 2005! And that's great. To love Porsche is to love history as well. Something to think about.
vice versa. This reinforces my argument. Porsche improved the tiptronic transmission system. The manufacturer is Mercedes. The computer's latest tiptronic s (997.1) is very smart. This transmission system is well designed and very reliable. Improve over the years. And PDK has replaced the tiptronic s and continues with advanced technology. It is written in all articles. That's what happened in 2005! And that's great. To love Porsche is to love history as well. Something to think about.
Can't debate with someone who creates a stance in complete opposition to what all the data is telling them becuase that's the car he bought.
Rave on about the Tip - I'm unsubscribed and getting in one of my MT cars to go to lunch. Sheesh !
I bought a tip 997S and I also have a DSG Audi S5 and have had multiple MT porsches, bmws, and Audis.
I like the Tip because I personally just never liked Porsche clutches that much and this is my around town fun car not a track toy so I went tip.
I'll be the first to admit its not very performance oriented at all. It is not as fast to shift compared to how I can shift a MT car. It holds revs insanely long in sport mode (the only way I drive the car) and then all the sudden upshifts when you may have actually been ready to finally go into the corner and not wanted that upshift. It is slow to downshift and appears to think a second which gear to summon.
That said, I do enjoy the car with it for its friendly nature in traffic and general ability to "get the job done" in shifting. Its just not a performance oriented transmission and it does rob the car of significant acceleration.
Do I wish it was a PDK? Absolutely I do. But Ive also wanted a 997.1S factory aero package car for a long time and that mattered to me more so it is what it is.
Mike
Hi Mike
As I mentioned. I have to admit that it took me a few months to learn the tiptronic s. In manual mode, at rpm the correct 4600 shift of the gears is fast (with chrono sport even more).
"Downshift" with braking works great.
As I mentioned. I have to admit that it took me a few months to learn the tiptronic s. In manual mode, at rpm the correct 4600 shift of the gears is fast (with chrono sport even more).
"Downshift" with braking works great.
hehe, I know how to drive a tiptronic (dont get me started on the little plastic +/- rocker buttons as opposed to proper paddles). I guess fast is relative. Even as far as automatics go I wouldnt rank this among the fastest. The new zf8 are much better much less a dual clutch trans.
Not sure the reason for the video though. No telemetry data is on screen (gear) or view of driver inputs.
hehe, I know how to drive a tiptronic (dont get me started on the little plastic +/- rocker buttons as opposed to proper paddles). I guess fast is relative. Even as far as automatics go I wouldnt rank this among the fastest. The new zf8 are much better much less a dual clutch trans.
Not sure the reason for the video though. No telemetry data is on screen (gear) or view of driver inputs.
Mike
Absolutely. Sorry. I did not mean to say you did not know how to drive a TIP. I wrote it down for those who do not have a TIP S and undecided.
PDK is definitely better. In addition, the PDK V2 is also preferable to the PDK V1 ..
Absolutely. Sorry. I did not mean to say you did not know how to drive a TIP. I wrote it down for those who do not have a TIP S and undecided.
PDK is definitely better. In addition, the PDK V2 is also preferable to the PDK V1 ..
right on man. no offense taken btw. i do enjoy the tip for what it is though. its nice to have in a daily driver or city car.
vice versa. This reinforces my argument. Porsche improved the tiptronic transmission system. The manufacturer is Mercedes. The computer's latest tiptronic s (997.1) is very smart. This transmission system is well designed and very reliable. Improve over the years. And PDK has replaced the tiptronic s and continues with advanced technology. It is written in all articles. That's what happened in 2005! And that's great. To love Porsche is to love history as well. Something to think about.
pdk is essentially a manual so Porsche replaced the outdated tiptronic torque converter technology (read here automatic transmission) with a super fancy manual transmission that has the capability of shifting auto. pdk has more in common with manual than tiptronic which is nothing like pdk.
09-21-2017, 10:39 AM
