jeleccion

As I've been discussing on the 996 forum, my '99 C2 has gone south and now the choice is to spend $30k on a RND M96 motor or buy a TT. I'm leaning toward buying the TT and have driven a few and absolutely love the peformance. I did notice that the clutch seems to be a lot stiffer than my C2, other than that--and of course the obvious difference in acceleration--the cars feel quite similar.

Since I am looking at cars for around $35-40k, the mileage is going to be north of 70-80k. Can anyone please share what things I should be looking for when looking at and test driving these TTs? No matter that car I end up with, I'm going to get a PPI, I just want to try and narrow things down before I send the car to my mechanic. Any and all ideas are wlecome.

Thanks,
Joe

Keo

Wing might not be functioning due to failed hydraulic system (affects all 996TTs). Try decelerating in second gear under compression going downhill to verify if the second gear pops out. Listen for whistle-like sound when shifting under acceleration (this would be diverter valves). Other than that, the car is really solid. I would ensure the CarFax is clean and I would get a PPI done.

jeleccion

Great. Thank you.

Macster

Odd about the clutch. My Turbo's clutch is easier to work than that of my Boxster.

The Turbo clutch is hydraulic assisted and if the clutch is a lot stiffer than your C2 (and the Turbo engine is running) that's not a good sign.

Generally a hard to operate clutch is a sign of a worn clutch -- the disc material wears and the hardware loses some of its mechanical leverage as the pivots move off the more spherical portion. But I would think the Turbo's boost feature would tend to mask this. But maybe not.

Oh, I assume the Turbo hasn't been subjected to the GT2 clutch mod? Where the hydraulic assist feature is removed and the non-boosted GT2 clutch hydraulic system is used?

As for what to be looking for with a Turbo? Everything. The Turbo is just a used car so you should subject the car to a thorough used car check out.

You want to start with a cold engine and when you turn on the key ensure all warning lights, including the CEL, come on then go off as the engine starts.

Note if the clutch is harder to press when the engine is off than when it is running this is a sign of a bad clutch accumulator. Along with this it seems the clutch slave cyllnder can go bad too. Signs of a bad clutch slave cylinder are signs of fluid wetness around the small reservoir under the plastic panel just ahead of the driver or fluid stains on top of the panel. The panel is held on with one Torx screw, the security style I think. So show up with a set of these and a handle.

The body water drains are under the panels on either side of the battery box and you want be sure the water drains are free of trash. If they are not, if the trash is damp or even worse there is standing water there is the possibilty water has gotten into the cabin. This can play havoc with the car's electrical system, the security system, as the security system module is on the floor under the passenger seat.

Let the engine warm up but keep an ear tuned to the engine for any worrying sounds. Ticks, knocks, groans, squeaks, chirps, or what have you.

To give the engine time to warm up some walk around the car and check all body panels, panel gaps, the headlight fits in the fenders. Get down and peer inside the radiator ducts -- bring a good flashlight! If you see lots of trash this is a sign the car may not have received loving care.

Open the engine compartment lid -- be careful the engine compartment fan in the lid can come on at any time if it is not running when you lift the lid -- and look for leak sign in the engine compartment. Remember the engine is running and you drop your phone it will get caught in the belt and having to buy a new phone is the least of your worries.

Check the spoiler hydraulic cylinder covers and surrounding areas for any leak sign. A factory replacement is $2K. There been reports of owners fixing these so if you are mechanically inclined you can look into this and possibly save some money.

After some idle time then have the seller take you on a test ride. The route should be around 15 miles long and allow the driver to demo the car as you intend to use it.

There should be a mix of driving so you can experience the car in its natural state.

The engine should pull hard and smoothly from idle to redline. Once the hard pull is over the engine should settle into an uneventful idle.

If you can observe the boost read out on the dash. A stock 996 Turbo should deliver 0.7 bar boost but it takes rather ideal conditions. That is if the engine controller can satisfy the torque demanded by the driver and signaled through the E-Gas system with less boost it will do so.

Really unless you have open roads and unpatroled roads where you test drive the car you'll be hard pressed to experience max. boost.

After the test ride back at the starting point switch seats and drive the car over the same route, driving the car the same way as the seller drove the car.

Listen for noises. A high pitched squeal when you roll up to a stop with the transmission in neutral and the clutch pedal released is some valve in the power steering tank. If you push the clutch in and then release it the noise should go away. To quiet requires a new valve and the new valve is not sold separately. You have to buy a new tank. Budget close to $1K.

It is important you experience the car on the road. It is important the car be driven, the engine run, about an hour. The two drives give the engine controller time to run through all the readiness checks. The CEL should stay dark.

After this engine run time it makes your further inspection and that of a PPI of more value as the road time the engine run time gives the running gear and the engine a chance to manifest any leaks.

After your test ride and drive back at the starting point then give the car a thorough used car check out confirming various systems work.

If after the above you still like the car and believe you can buy it for a reasonable sum then arrange for a PPI. This gets the car in the air and allows for a close inspection for any leaks.

This is an important step. (Well, one of many.) All gaskets, seals, o-rings, hoses, hose fittings, hydraulic lines, are checked for any leak sign.

Some "biggies"? Water pump, RMS, transmission and diff seals. Look at the big seals on the transmission to be sure but look at the smaller ones too like the selector shaft seals. A leak at one of these had my Turbo's transmission replaced under CPO warranty.

Check the radiator hose connections for any leak sign. The tubes the hoses connect to are epoxied in and over time this epoxy can come loose and let the tube leak. Cars that are tracked are more prone to developing a problem in this area but you have to make sure these are coolant tight. It is an engine out job to address.

Do not forget the CV boots. And don't forget the front diff and its axle flange seals and the CV boots there. The front diff seals on my car leaked and had to be replaced.

If you see leak sign at the front diff you have to be concerned about the integrity of the diff. If it has run low on fluid this can be a precursor to failure. The front diff has the viscous coupling and this runs very hot. The working temperature of the special fluid is 300F+ and the only cooling it gets is from air flow and the fluid of the front diff splashing on its housing. (The coupling is a sealed unit in the front diff.)

While the car is in the air check the radiators for any leak sign. They tend to leak along the bottom portion where the finned section joins the tank portion.

Don't forget the steering rack. This is tricky. A leak can remain hidden. The rack seal can leak but the dust boot can capture the fluid. The first sign of trouble is the power steering pump gets noisy due to low fluid level. If you can reach them give the dust boots a grope. If they feel like they have something in them the odds are the rack seals are leaking.

If the rear tires are unevenly worn on the inside edges -- the most common form of incorrect wear -- this is a sign of bad alignment.

A 1mm lip on the brake rotors is a good sign the rotors are near the end of their life and new brakes will be needed soon.

You want to be sure all underbody panels are present and accounted for. The PPI guy should know what is normal and what is not and he should mention this to you if he finds some are missing. These are important to ensure the car has the proper aerodynamics. My Turbo has impressive coolant temperature control even when driving in 118F heat and part of this is due to the exceptional aerodynamics that help ensure adequate air flow through the radiator ducts. The car is super stable at high speed (~165mph) and this is due in no small part to the car's aerodynamics. The underbody panels are not just there for show.

The PPI should include a read out of the DME over rev counters along with total engine run time and the engine run time timestamp when the last overrev event occurred. The PPI guy should be able to explain what the readings mean but generally readings in the higher ranges are not a good sign.

Remember if you find a deal killer don't be afraid to walk away. There is always another car.

Carlo_Carrera

There is some good info in this thread.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...s-996tt-2.html

Freddie Two Bs

I think it would be great to make a sticky "what to look for in a used 996tt"...

FRUNKenstein

Joe
I posted early on in your NA 996 forum thread. I loved my '99 C4 Aerokit. One of the best cars I've ever owned. But, you are on the right track now. Sell the carcass of your current car for about $6k, then add another $30k to that and you can get a nice 996tt. Not a low miles garage queen, but certainly something nice with around 75,000 miles. The best time of the year to buy is starting right now. Don't drive yourself nuts analyzing it - just do it. You'll have a better car in every way and the net result of the engine failure in your current car will be around $10k to $12k (it was probably worth around $16k to $18k before the engine failure and you will get about $6k out of it as a roller).
Nothing against Raby, but his Flat Six and RND engine prices (the R in RND stands for Raby) make no financial sense. They can only be justified if you are in love with the car (I have an old BMW convertible that I'm that way with - it has sentimental value to me, so I get why some go that way).

DaveCarrera4

+1

docboy

Agreed. The Mezger engine is a solid and robust piece of engineering. You'll have years of proven reliability (and power) with a 996tt. Not so sure about someone else's NA engine.

911mhawk

I'd look at everything Macster said and pair that with a stack of receipts proving that maintenance was done. If there are not complete receipts for the car, you have some good negating room at the mileage you're considering.

Repair and parts cost are proportionate to the original cost of these cars. Seriously consider what you'd do if soon after buying, a large repair bill comes. Not to be scary but it happens, even to those who've done their research. I needed transmission rebuild with bearings, synchros and some gears the first year of ownership. Others get by with an alignment and tires first year.

Good mechanical skills and help from a knowledgeable person go a long ways towards making these cars more affordable, in a relative sense.

fung0001

I have seen a 02 turbo with front brake cap fading in color and rotor with ridges which can be felt by my fingers

Is it due to overheating at abrupt stop & rotor coming to the end of its life cycle?

Macster

Faded brake calipers is due to excessive heat. This level of heat suggests track time.

A lip at the edge of the rotor is normal. The rotor wears but not quite to the edge so there's the lip. A 1mm lip is a sign the rotor is worn out and needs to be replaced along the pads.

Ridges/grooves/scoring at other places on the rotor can arise from a number of things. If the grooving is bad enough new rotors and brake pads can be called for.

Jeff_DML

did your IMS fail?

a lof of good into so far in this thread.

EAGLE 5

Great info! I'll definitely make a checklist with it and take it when I'll go shopping.

Carlo_Carrera

This is the list all 996TT buyers are looking for.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutor...ential-issues/