Macster

My reading of Bruce's comments are that both Group IV and V are good oils and we could use either group in our Porsches, though I would add only those that are PCNA approved.

I'm sorry, but I'm not, I can't recommend any non-PCNA oil especially to someone who's car is still under warranty. Now of course one is free to use any oil he wants -- in or out of warranty -- and that's his decision. But it is also his responsibility.

Bruce goes on to say the Group V oils handle heat better and this is particularly useful in turbo-charged engines where the heat tends to cause coking with conventional oils.

Conventional traditionally has referred to mineral oil but it might refer to Group IV oils too with any mineral oil blended in.

At least one Mobil 1 5w-40 oil has a 30 to 40% mineral oil content. Mobil's documentation doesn't say which 5w-40 oil though. But its MSDS does have as the product's description: "Synthetic Base Stocks and Additivies".

Slausen indicates that oils with a high level of ZDDP are a blend of synthetic and mineral oils which calls into question any oil with a high level of ZDDP as being a real synthetic oil.

Anyhow, Bruce does recommend a Group V oil, Motul 8100 X-MAX (which I think is now called X-cess (PCNA approved) (and there is an X-clean which is also a PCNA approved oil)), or one of the other Group V oils for the person to whom he was responding, who is located in AZ. This Porsche owner reported that last summer temps his area experienced temps over 110F for over 40 days.

Over 40 days of over 110F temps I think would constitute severe duty and probably only the best Group V oil would be appropriate. (As I mentioned before, I spent just a day in southern AZ in 110F (and higher heat up to 116F in places) and that was enough. Thankfully the Boxster had fresh (<1000 miles) Mobil 1 0W-40 oil in it.)

Sincerely,

Macster.

No HTwo O

Larry47us, IIRC one of the oils Kevin likes for the 996/997 Turbo is Mobil 1 5W50. This is a hard oil to find. You can call Petroliance near Elgin, and order it from them, and pick up. They are off 90 and southeast of Randall Road. 800-628-7231. You will need to open an account.

larry47us

Thanks, No. I mean yes. I'll give them a call, and see what their pricing is like. Then it's going into the big dipper for enough to buy oil. Maybe that is why Porsche recommends 15,000 miles between oil changes. At $9.50 per quart, times 9 quarts, plus $20 for an oil filter, to say nothing of the 4 crush washers, we're up to $105.50 for a DIY oil change.

Maybe that's why it took me 1 1/2 hours to do my oil change. I wanted to savor every minute!!!

(BTW, what the devil does "IIRC" mean? Still haven't figured that one out, and to graduate out of newbie-itis, to become a true member of the fraternity, I need to understand these things.

larry

adam_

Indeed. The good thing about wrenching on a porsche? Its a porsche.

IIRC if i recall correctly

Kevin

Macster, you need to look at a oil analysis report. Mobil 1 0W40 is loaded with Moly, Boron and calcium. Porsche do NOT certify the oils on ther own. The oil company need to PAY to have the certification. OW40 had a boat load of zinc in it prior to it being reduced.

The problem that I have is the current standard of oil guidelines do not meet the engine wear that we are seeing right now. When these engines were developed the zinc and phosphorous levels were 2 times what they are now. That leaves us finding a oil that meets those levels. I don't care about the fuel conservation additives in gasoline oil. Motul 300V, Mobil Delvac and 5W40TDT fit the bill. Mobil 5W50 is my recommendation for those that do NOT have IMS noise.

Kevin

I posted this on the 997TT forum. The oils in use from left to right> Mobil Delvac, Mobil Delvac, Mobil Turbo Diesel, Mobil 1 0W40, Mobil 1 0W40, and Mobil 1 0W40..

Here is a recent TESTING trial. Oil samples reported by Blackstone.

You can see OW40 and 5W40TDT in action. From right to left shows the recent mileage oil sample.

Oil Filter--------M1-109
OIL __________ D1ESP5w40 D1ESP5w40 M1TDT5w40 M1 0w40 M1 0w40 M1 0w40
MILES IN USE ------ 15,077 ___ 10,279 ___ 9800 ___ 9986 ___ 5000 ___ 9437
MI/HR-ON-UNIT----- 106,356 101,279 91800 69627 59641 54641

ALUMINUM---------- 5 4 4 (3) 4
CHROMIUM---------- 1 1 1 1 (1) 1
IRON-------------- 20 16 26 38 (10) 15
COPPER------------ 5 3 5 3 (3) 3
LEAD-------------- 14 7 7 15 (6) 25
TIN--------------- 0 4 1 5 (0) 0
MOLYBDENUM-------- 6 5 19 75 (74) 87
NICKEL------------ 0 0 0 0 (0) 0
MANGANESE--------- 2 2 1 1 (0) 0
SILVER------------ 0 0 0 0 (0) 0
TITANIUM---------- 0 0 0 0 (0) 0
POTASSIUM--------- 3 3 3 3 (3) 0
BORON------------- 33 33 38 115 (124) 127
SILICON----------- 15 10 11 13 (11) 10
SODIUM------------ 7 6 5 7 (8) 10
CALCIUM----------- 1655 1436 1702 2847 (2551) 2941
MAGNESIUM--------- 1004 819 665 15 (13) 17
PHOSPHORUS-------- 1124 1011 913 823 (728) 813
ZINC-------------- 1739 1434 1150 1016 (895) 1034
BARIUM------------ 0 0 0 0

SUS-VIS@210F------ 82.6 78.2 76.9 71.3 (70.9) 70.9
cSt-VIS@100c------ 16.16 15.06 14.75 13.29 (13.19) 13.19
FLASHPOINT-IN-F--- 415 410 410 390 (420) 395
FUEL%-------------<0.5
ANTIFREEZE%-------0.0
WATER%------------0.0
INSOLUBLES%------- 0.2 0.2 0.3 0.3 (0.3) 0.4
TBN--------------- 1.2 2.5 3.0 3.9 (6.0) 2.4

cannon1000

interpret?

Kevin

As you stretch out your oil intervals you will see more engine wear. You engine will show gradual wear as you put miles on the vehicle. Lead, tin, and copper is bearing wear. Iron is your all the steel components, tappets, crankshaft, gears, and chains. Aluminum is the cam housings, and caps.

The viscosity at temperature shows you how the oil thins out over the miles.

If you look at the TBN number, the labs will tell you what the starting number is for a gas engine. Usually it is around 7.0.. When it reaches 1.0 your oil additives packs are worn out! The 15K service shows a TBN of 1.2 At 9K the TBN was 2.5

No HTwo O

I would add to Kevin's comments by saying, if you do used oil analysis (UOA) on your new Porsche, you will see these wear metal levels go DOWN as the engine breaks-in and internal parts get settled in. For example, in my Boxster S the copper and iron levels were 16, 11, and 8 over the last 3 years. Same interval (7,500 miles), same oil (Red Line 5W40), same owner.

In my 993 Turbo, even in a +14 year old Porsche, these levels were still dropping. I attribute this more to my driving style vs the prior owner's, as my driving style is spirited on long weekend drives (+300 miles). Last year I did 3 UOA's, and the levels for copper were 14, 11, and 6. Same interval (5,000 miles), same oil (Mobil V-Twin), same owner.

jpflip

I am sorry if this question is not related to the thread but I just receive the empty bottle from Blackstone for the oil analysis. When is the best time to take the oil sample from the reservoir. At the next oil change (5000kms) or I can get it done sooner...

larry47us

But my question is that your 993 is certainly long past its break-in. So if the levels are still dropping, it is hard to use "break-in" as causation for the reduction of copper over the 15,000 miles. Even though my 996TT has only 26,500 miles on it, that is certainly well past the break-in point. From here on, the engine will wear as the parts continue to rub against each other. That's my reason for the drain magnets. Hopefully, the use of the magnets will reduce the iron in the oil, and thereby reduce the wear that is induced by metal filings floating around.

As far as wear of other elements, that's why we change the oil, and use better quality oil. BTW, I called Petroliance. They have the 5W50 in stock, in 6 quart cases, selling for $40.26 per case. Looks like I have found my new stock of oil. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

larry

larry47us

Flip:

The question is "what do you want to find out?" Do you want to find out something specific about the oil that is currently in your engine, so that you can decide whether you should change the oil now or later? Do you want to know to know if the type of oil that is in it now is the one that you should continue to use? (This is only helpful if you KNOW what kind of oil is in the engine.)

I bought a car and had no idea when the oil was changed or what kind of oil was used. I changed the oil, and then sent in some drain oil so that I could get an initial reading on the wear characteristics of the engine. Sent mine in yesterday, so I've got a week or two to find out the results.

larry

jpflip

Since I got my car since 2008 and know what kind of oil I am using I would like to know the wear characteristic of the engine. I guess if you get the test done with oil at 10,000 miles the result is going to be different than if you do it at 5000 miles....

No HTwo O

Larry, glad the Petroliance worked out for you.

With regards to my 993 Turbo, I think the reasons the wear metals are improving (dropping) during my first year of ownership and 3 oil changes are mainly due to my driving style (long runs, +300 miles at a time when it goes out, no short runs, not a daily driver) and using a better oil (Mobil V-Twin 20W50). The prior owner (a Rennlister) ran Mobil 15W50 and did not drive her much. She had 33,000 miles when I bought her. I put +15,000 miles on her in the first year.

It could be easily argued, that with only 33,000 miles, the engine was still going through a break in process.

With my Boxster S's engine, I first started doing UOA's at about the 20,000 mile mark, and now has almost 40,000. Wear metals are dropping there too. So, again the arguement could be made that the engine is still breaking in.

LVDell

That's where I get my 5W-50 and Delvac (tranny gear oil) as well. Petroliance is great if you have one local! And it's actually CHEAPER than Autozone, etc.