CPO upset
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Baltimore MD
CPO upset
Last week I got a CEL, I decided to take the car to the stealership since it is CPOd, the code was a secondary air inyection failure (not a big deal). I just got a call from the dealer saying that that part is not covered under the CPO warranty.. WTF is up with that? I was told that the CPO as of Jan 1st 09 was equal to a new car warranty... 
has anyone have this part replaced under CPO warranty? the total cost was $730 I declined the repair, I rather give that money to my trusted Independent Porsche shop...
has anyone have this part replaced under CPO warranty? the total cost was $730 I declined the repair, I rather give that money to my trusted Independent Porsche shop...
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 790
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From: Baltimore MD
I just called PCNA and they said that they have to check with a CPO expert, they suposedly will get back to me by the end of the week, I am speechless and outraged about this, I cant believe Porsche is screwing with people like this... any ideas will be apreciated
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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From: N. California
But you are speachless and outraged?? Dude, Porsche does this ALL-THE-TIME. Nothing new, or different.
So, couple of things:
Did you get and read your CPO warranty??? If no, well, why not? Get it, copy it, hand it to the puke SA when he tries to bend you over. I have a few CPO warranties pdf'd but not a Porsche one. They are actually much harder to find than the new car warranties.
The 'emissions warranty' is pretty limited by this time...
- Initially, in all states, there is a period when ANY repair to restore emissions must be fuly covererd.
-Then over time it reduces. The federal warranty only covers 3-4 parts as I recall, but goes to 8yr/80k miles. (In california we have a 7/70 that covers quite a few parts, not sure if secondary air is on that).
-DO keep in mind that while they refer to these as "federal" and "state" warranties, they are still backed and perfomred by Porsche (or whatever mfg it is) ...they are just mandated by the government.
Finally YOU need to get the cpo contract and interpret it- BE PROACTIVE. Porsche has taken a shortcut, as have many mfgs, and come you with a 'list' of 'covered parts'.... While the warranty is a combination of parts AS WELL AS FAILURE MODES, the mfg just uses a part number. (for example a clutch is never covered as it is considered a 'wear item'... but what if the clutch breaks, mechanically, and not due to wear? (Just an example). It is possible that in this 'interpretation' they loose sight of the warranty terms. If you believe it is covered, write a letter, cite the CPO language, demand coverage, fax it to them.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 790
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From: Baltimore MD
JUst came back from speaking with the service manager:
The CPO warranty brochure that you get on the mail is a general list, there is a itemized list that the dealers has, they are NOT allowed to give this list to customers.
The secondary air pump is in that list, but not the hoses and valves that are needed, so they want me to pay for it.
CPO is NOT a new car extended warranty, as the sales person sold it to me, we pay extra for a warranty that only covers maybe 80-90% of the car...
Has anyone have a DIY on the secondary air inyection system? how difficult is it to fix?
Thanks
The CPO warranty brochure that you get on the mail is a general list, there is a itemized list that the dealers has, they are NOT allowed to give this list to customers.
The secondary air pump is in that list, but not the hoses and valves that are needed, so they want me to pay for it.
CPO is NOT a new car extended warranty, as the sales person sold it to me, we pay extra for a warranty that only covers maybe 80-90% of the car...
Has anyone have a DIY on the secondary air inyection system? how difficult is it to fix?
Thanks
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
Likes: 2
From: N. California
Would you like an opinion of the CPO language in the book/policy? post it up here.
The language in the policy they sent you IS the legally binding language. They may have their own secret whatever, but if they don't give it to you it cant be part of the agreement! I have no doubt the service manager might believe what he is saying, but he is wrong.
Did they say it is the pump, or the hoses TO the pump?
The game of "well the pump is covered, but the hoses are not, and therefore we will charge for the hoses as well as book time for the hoses may be illegal and a violation of the contract.
A
The language in the policy they sent you IS the legally binding language. They may have their own secret whatever, but if they don't give it to you it cant be part of the agreement! I have no doubt the service manager might believe what he is saying, but he is wrong.
Did they say it is the pump, or the hoses TO the pump?
The game of "well the pump is covered, but the hoses are not, and therefore we will charge for the hoses as well as book time for the hoses may be illegal and a violation of the contract.
A
Last edited by adam_; Jul 24, 2009 at 12:04 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 905
Likes: 2
From: N. California
Just found this: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...-question.html
"Fuel injectors, throttle valve housing,
air flow sensor, intake air distributor, intake manifold,
pressure regulator, temperature sensors, control
units, warm-up regulator, fuel distributor, fuel line,
air pump, and all related seals and gaskets."
The language in this policy (and you should not that this document doesn't say "this is just a summary, contact your policy or dealer's secret list for more complete terms and conditions") clearly covers the pump. They must replace the pump at no charge for labor or parts. Period.
Ask them to itemize the non-covered parts, in writing- part number and price, for you to consider. Then go to PCNA.
You want to move this to writing as soon as you can...they are banking on deniability and hoping you roll over.
GL
A
"Fuel injectors, throttle valve housing,
air flow sensor, intake air distributor, intake manifold,
pressure regulator, temperature sensors, control
units, warm-up regulator, fuel distributor, fuel line,
air pump, and all related seals and gaskets."
The language in this policy (and you should not that this document doesn't say "this is just a summary, contact your policy or dealer's secret list for more complete terms and conditions") clearly covers the pump. They must replace the pump at no charge for labor or parts. Period.
Ask them to itemize the non-covered parts, in writing- part number and price, for you to consider. Then go to PCNA.
You want to move this to writing as soon as you can...they are banking on deniability and hoping you roll over.
GL
A
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore MD
Thanks a lot for your help/support
Here is an update:
The service manager I spoke to yesterday was from another dealer (close to my work) so after work I went to the dealer that had my car. I politely asked an explanation and all the service advisor said was.."its not covered.. we have a list, and that part # is not in included" I spoke with my lawyer (a good friend) and he said that I might have a good chance to win, but why spend $2k to save $800? + all the agravation. So I requested to speak with the mechanic who performed the diagnostic. The guy was very cool and he actually gave me the part # and explained everything. The codes my car had were P0491 and P0492, basically what I need is two 993.110.337.50 (diverter valves), they are $58.25(pelican parts) (115 at the stealer) each and I can replace them myself. The service advisor had no clue of what she was talking about, she told me it was the secondary air pump system's valve... they wanted to charge me $135 for the diagnostics, later they droped it to $66.25 so at the end of the day I got screwed with the CPO, but the car can be fixed for less than $120 (not the $800 they wanted) so I guess I am relieved, still I have a case open at PCNA, I will be speaking with them later today to see what happens, but so far a diverter valve is considered a wear and tear item, just like a clutch or a brake pad... They also had the audacity to offer me the 30k mile service, they quoted me $1799.99, I politely declided it 
Here is an update:
The service manager I spoke to yesterday was from another dealer (close to my work) so after work I went to the dealer that had my car. I politely asked an explanation and all the service advisor said was.."its not covered.. we have a list, and that part # is not in included" I spoke with my lawyer (a good friend) and he said that I might have a good chance to win, but why spend $2k to save $800? + all the agravation. So I requested to speak with the mechanic who performed the diagnostic. The guy was very cool and he actually gave me the part # and explained everything. The codes my car had were P0491 and P0492, basically what I need is two 993.110.337.50 (diverter valves), they are $58.25(pelican parts) (115 at the stealer) each and I can replace them myself. The service advisor had no clue of what she was talking about, she told me it was the secondary air pump system's valve... they wanted to charge me $135 for the diagnostics, later they droped it to $66.25 so at the end of the day I got screwed with the CPO
, but the car can be fixed for less than $120 (not the $800 they wanted) so I guess I am relieved, still I have a case open at PCNA, I will be speaking with them later today to see what happens, but so far a diverter valve is considered a wear and tear item, just like a clutch or a brake pad... They also had the audacity to offer me the 30k mile service, they quoted me $1799.99, I politely declided it
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What makes you think that it's your diverter valves that have failed??? Failure mode is???
What if its your muffler bearings?? Or throttle position slide rule?? BTW all bogus..
My two cents>> For ALL future owners of these cars and current owners of these cars. DUE to the economical status of our country, it is YOUR own responsibility to review and research your cars problems. Get multiple diagnostic opinions and GET it on paper from your dealership. Call a independant and/or other dealer.
There should be a sticky thread on this exact 996TT forum that instructs everyone to READ and REPORT the exact CEL code.
Failed diverter valves have a distinct method of failure. Secondly why would you install a part that is known to fail again. You mention that it is EASY to install the diverter valves. And yes, they are considered a wear part because they fail often (stock factory units)
Again what are your symptoms?? I haven't heard you mention the tell tale signs yet? So the question is? How do you know that they have failed>> A split "F" tube or a boost hose that has come off will give you the same failure mode.
The factory Porsche CPO is very good, screw the nickel and dime repairs >> absorb them. You are going to THANK the stars in heaven if you loose your intermediate shaft or vario cam module, or porosity in the cylinder head casting. ALL are covered under the CPO warranty. And by the way these last failures that I have mentioned, have happened "this" month to a few owners. Two of the three had coverage, one didn't.
What if its your muffler bearings?? Or throttle position slide rule?? BTW all bogus..
My two cents>> For ALL future owners of these cars and current owners of these cars. DUE to the economical status of our country, it is YOUR own responsibility to review and research your cars problems. Get multiple diagnostic opinions and GET it on paper from your dealership. Call a independant and/or other dealer.
There should be a sticky thread on this exact 996TT forum that instructs everyone to READ and REPORT the exact CEL code.
Failed diverter valves have a distinct method of failure. Secondly why would you install a part that is known to fail again. You mention that it is EASY to install the diverter valves. And yes, they are considered a wear part because they fail often (stock factory units)
Again what are your symptoms?? I haven't heard you mention the tell tale signs yet? So the question is? How do you know that they have failed>> A split "F" tube or a boost hose that has come off will give you the same failure mode.
The factory Porsche CPO is very good, screw the nickel and dime repairs >> absorb them. You are going to THANK the stars in heaven if you loose your intermediate shaft or vario cam module, or porosity in the cylinder head casting. ALL are covered under the CPO warranty. And by the way these last failures that I have mentioned, have happened "this" month to a few owners. Two of the three had coverage, one didn't.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 790
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From: Baltimore MD
Kevin
the symptoms are:
CEL codes P0491 and P0492
I could hear the air pump coming on while the engine was warm i.e. at a red light.
The Porsche tech told me that he did a vacuum test in the system and he determined that one of the diverter valves totally failed the test and that the other one was working OK, he recomended replacing both. I am not an expert but I would think that if the DVs were bad I would also read low boot at WOT, wich never happened.
Any advise would be highly apreciated
the symptoms are:
CEL codes P0491 and P0492
I could hear the air pump coming on while the engine was warm i.e. at a red light.
The Porsche tech told me that he did a vacuum test in the system and he determined that one of the diverter valves totally failed the test and that the other one was working OK, he recomended replacing both. I am not an expert but I would think that if the DVs were bad I would also read low boot at WOT, wich never happened.
Any advise would be highly apreciated
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Do you have a "oiled" air filter?? BMC or K&N?
Do you hear " a honking" noise when under WOT boost?
Spend some time searching this forum about blown bypass valves or diverter valves.
Do you have a non flashed ECU>> stock boost levels?
Do you hear " a honking" noise when under WOT boost?
Spend some time searching this forum about blown bypass valves or diverter valves.
Do you have a non flashed ECU>> stock boost levels?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Baltimore MD
my car is bone stock, it has the paper air filter, I do hear a noise when at WOT, its like a hissing I thought it was normal... do you think that a failed DV can cause CEL codes P0491 and P0492?