Greg Fishman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by FixedWing:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Fixed Wing,

You really must be from Mars to make some of the assumptions you do.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Greg,

My comments are all speculative. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I am well aware of that, you made that painfully obvious. You speculate that maybe the car rolled because it had 19" wheels, therefore 19" wheels might not be good for track use. If in fact the guy/girl hit something with their wheel that made them roll (unlikely, but possible) what difference would it have made if they were 18" wheels or 14" wheels?

If the guy/girl was using Michelin tires would that also make them unsuited for track duty?

Anders hypothesis is very similar to mine. I wouldn't be surpised if there was a tire wall where he hit. Tire walls can grab the car and in an offset collision cause the car to do an endo.

Oak

I'm sure the wheels are 18", you can tell by the sidewalls in proportion to the wheel. The wheels look like 18" Fikse. Not sure as of now, when I checked with Fikse when looking for new wheels, they didn't offer that style in 19". Gemaballa, Techart, etc.. run 19" wheels with Yokos on the "Ring" and other european tracks with no problems.

JimBob Jumpback

Hey fixwing bubba,

yall shudn't be sayin awl dat silly stuff an tryin to fite agin. rememer wat our mammma done sayed bout dat.

you udder bubbas maybe dun't know dat fixenwing he be my twin brudder. wen we waz bout 12 yeers older, we dun stoled too kars an crashed dem inta each udder. well we wernt wearin no seetbelts an we both hit our heads pert good.

day was fraid dat da crash mite makin us stoopid so we tooked an ICue test. we waz fine but den we founded out dat fixed wing waz da smarterest wun in da familee. I gots me a 64 on dat test but my twin brudder fixinwing gotz a 65 i.que. hez pert smart but momma nevr liked him wen he keeped tryin ta fighten wit everone else.

AN now yall know wats ol JimBob and ol fixedenwing look likey. hansum devels, aint we.

Yur Fren,
JimBob

PorschePhD

FixedWing,
This one is long gone. The insurance company stopped counting body panels at 56K. The interior structure was nearly untouched. Other than being smacked in the head with the windshield and the seat belt trying to strangle me to death there was really nothing to talk about. The rear quarters were shoved 2 inches into the doors yet they still opened. Porsche builds a heck of a car.
Picture has been pulled, thanks for the tip.

George 911-V8

This is exactly why I don't DE my car. I have seen first hand the damage done at a DE. I will not let someone else crash driving my car that I paid hard working money blood sweat and tears for. I could see if it was a real race and you crashed thats different there is money involved a purse, but to be boy racer for a day no way. Just 2 months ago a friend of mine who is a DE instructor got into a crash while he was a passenger. He was at a DE teaching a student. The student thought for a minute he was jeff gordon around the turns.
Then guess what boy racer hits the wall totally ruined the car and hurt my friend. My friend missed work and lost money by missing a weeks work.
I have been a member of the pca since 1994 every DE I have seen someone hits the wall or runs over something causing damage to the car. I happen to live by a local track and it doesn't fail someone tears up something.

BTW: Whos the goof ball jim bob jump back maybe he needs to go to a DE.

<a href="http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html" target="_blank">SWAMP MONSTER</a> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />

Konrad 996tt

I see what appears to be a roll bar behind the red numbers on the passenger's side (not the back panel, but through the first red number). I could be wrong, but I have seen a Porsche that had landed hard on the roof, and collapsed the A pillars. I would not expect a roll bar (that is, a hoop behind the front occupants, not a roll cage) to do much more than assist in preventing the collapse of the A pillars.

Stephen,
You are one lucky cat. From what I can remember of your pic, it did not seem that the car spent too much time or had too much pressure on the roof. However it happened, I am glad you are OK.
<img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Greg Fishman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by George 911-V8:
<strong> The student thought for a minute he was jeff gordon around the turns.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, that is the problem. Everyone knows Jeff Gordon can't turn right very well.

PorschePhD

Konrad,
I actually went about 500 feet on the roof then after it finished rolling it was on it's top down a hill for about 10 feet. It split the roof in several places however stayed in one piece.

Some jackass cut me off on the highway doing about 30 without warning. I took what I thought was the lesser of the two evils and hit the shoulder, dropped off in the grass as there was not much of a shoulder. When I reentered the highway I couldn't calm her down. Applied a little power, corrected and it sling shot across the highway backwards...the rest is history. The guy that caused it left me on my own and motored on.

GreggT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by George 911-V8:
<strong>This is exactly why I don't DE my car. I have seen first hand the damage done at a DE. I will not let someone else crash driving my car that I paid hard working money blood sweat and tears for. I could see if it was a real race and you crashed thats different there is money involved a purse, but to be boy racer for a day no way.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Not to pick a fight (and it seems it's pretty easy to do that here) but I think there is a different perspective on DEs.

I've been doing them for 10 yrs or so, (started with a 944, then 993, and now 996)........nobody drives my car but me, I'm aware I put myself & my car at risk, I thoroughly enjoy it, I take some pride in improving my ability, I do not consider myself to be a "boy racer", I know I will never be a racer, but the main reason I own this car is .....I love to drive, drive fast, drive more capably than the 'average bear'.........and quite honestly, I have a hard time understanding any other reason for owning these cars.

But again, that's just my opinion....not trying to offend anyone.......just a little defence of tracking your car ( and a well run PCA DE program).

Carlos

Sorry Greg but I couldnt help it. You exemplify the problem. Nobody on theis board could carry Jeff Gordon's jock. I saw him go from 11th to second on one lap on a road course. Oh yeah and that Earnhart guy seemed to whip a lot of Porsche *** in that Corvette. When somebody offers you millions per year to drive ANYTHING, then you can talk. In the meantime, get ready for the next DE.

And JBJumpback is a certified fool and I hate those big pictures.

FixedWing

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>
You speculate that maybe the car rolled because it had 19" wheels, therefore 19" wheels might not be good for track use. If in fact the guy/girl hit something with their wheel that made them roll (unlikely, but possible) what difference would it have made if they were 18" wheels or 14" wheels?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well Greg, looks like you have a supporter. Maybe you and JimBob should get together and burn something?

Here's my theory on the 19" vs. 18" rims .... we all know that the larger rims are easier to damage. This is one of the risks of owning these rims. The lower profile tyres that you need to run with them puts them closer to the road. So I would think that when the tyre is rolled over hard in cornering (especially if running a lower pressure) then it might become even easier to snag a rim on a curb. I do think if you hit a rim solidly on a curb you could have a good chance of going over.

This is just my theory. I have no proof of this, only speculation. And as you've pointed out already, this car could have flipped any of 100 different ways.

S.

Greg Fishman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Carlos:
<strong>Sorry Greg but I couldnt help it. You exemplify the problem. Nobody on theis board could carry Jeff Gordon's jock.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Carlos,
What problem is that?
Not that I would want to hold his jock strap but I agree he is very talented. You missed my point as it was in jest. These guys only turn one direction except for two races a year.

Yes Earnhart Sr. was very good in the Corvette. I was there and saw how quickly he got up to speed in the miserably cold and wet conditions. And yes he was faster than SOME Porsches, their team finished fourth behind two Porsches and the other factory supported Corvette. The Corvettes should have been faster since they were in a different class.

I invite you to a DE or to a Club Race and you will see what these events are about. I will be in Atlanta the first of April, there will be about 200 cars for the PCA race.

GreggT

Its the age old problem.....rounders don't understand road racers.....
and road racers don't understrand rounders

Konrad 996tt

I agree with GreggT. DE events are not for everyone, but I am glad we can have them. I am the only one who drives my car, and I will not hesitate to talk to a person who is being "unintelligent" on the track, immediately following a session. It is the only acceptable way to drive the car near its limits (not on public roads)

Again, not to pick a fight (but I probably will) but I seem to recall George challenging people to a street race/drag on public roads with his swamp monster...... It is odd that he would not put his car on the track, but would be willing to race on public roads.

Carlos

Greg, Last year the corvettes were. In fact they were faster than any other car in any class. And you missed my point as well. IMHO boy racer wannabees buy a helmet, take their car to the track and think they are racers. They are not racing. Therefore they are not racers. If you or anyone else wants to use up or smash up their car at a DE then go for it. But that does not make them a racer. And thanks for the invitation but I wont be at Road Atlanta. I've been to race tracks on a number of occasions and personally I dont find them that comfortable of a place to hang out. So if I'm going to go, then I will go when I can see a REAL race with real racer competeing for a real purse. Trophy's, placques and ribbons dont count.

By the way, how much do the non-DE Porsche drivers subsidise this hobby through high insurance premiums from fraudulent DE insurance claims?