911SLOW

Don't confuse the real old cups that come in 18s with the 19" cup+.
The old ones are so much better in the dry and just plain dangerous in the wet. The newer cups are like a shaved PS2.. no comparison.
(BTW from what I hear and from published tests the N cups of the 7.2RS are better in the dry and again suck in the wet but their dimensions are way off for the 6..)

FFaust

^^ So John the word "old" confuses me. What do you mean by "real old cups"?

Does it mean old "type", which are still the same today but only in 18"? Or does this mean that the old tires were good but the new ones not so much?

If I go out an get a set of 18s today, are they still the same as the olds or are they now crap?

In other words, is it:

- 18 = good
- 19 = not so much

If so, I could then just get a set of new 18 Cups for now, since they are old and good

CT03911

I ran on the Nitto's the first time without heatcycling them from onlinetires.com
Don't know if they have that service. They were rediculously slippery from even compared to worn MPSC's on the first session and really all day one.
Day two the tire transformed. They need heatcycling more than a MPSC I think.
It will never be a MPSC or Hoo Hoo but what it does is allow you to feel the car slipping more, learning to drive that vs just go get a "quicker lap time" and all this at a lower cost and upwards of 50 heatcycles before they are done.
Mine felt done before they corded. Others report they get better near the chords. I am not buying that yet but I only had the one set w/50 HC's on it at the end of the season. They were getting slippery imo but we'll never know- new ones are going on this season.
On that note, I ordered them late (standard for me) so even though I saw discounttire.com offers heatcycling, I did not get it.
I will have an interesting day one with them again this year but am prepared.
Great leaning tire.
Supplies are possibly limited depending on what you read, who you call.

See this thread for short supply comments in this forum.

911SLOW

Yes 18s are still the "old" ones.. they just stopped the 315s in 18"..and also stopped all the 16",17"..etc

Here is a picture from an old tirerack thread..comparing the N spec on the right not good..to the non Nspec that was BMW spec.. *code 88851

I attach the old line and the new line and the old cups cutting instructions...

BTW don't drive it in the rain unless you cut it.. and if you do then it gets average in the dry.. : )

4porsh

NT-01s 245/315 on stock rims 3.25f and 2.5 rear.
I like to start out cold tire pressures at 25psi all around. If a colder day may start at 27 to 29 psi.
The first lap car will feel squirmy, just need to get the tire pressure up and heat build up. Then hammer down for 30 min DE and the car should feel planted the whole time. If not you may have started with the pressure too high or need to bleed down some air through out the day as the ambi temps have rised. Let out 1psi for every 10 degree ambi rise.

The NT-01s are slippery the first day when new, I think from the coating they use to get the tire off the mold and then do to them needed the oils to be heat cycled and cured. They will get good in a day or so, then only get better as the horizontal tread starts to disappear thus no tread squirm. Then tire feel great for many many heat cycles when the tread is gone but slowly the tire will not be as fast but can be run to the cords.

I have also had fun on track in the rain with treaded NT-01s. Is this the fastest tire for those conditions? no. But many times I see people running supper sticky tires and they are poking around in the slower run groups.
With the NT-01s you have to lean on your driving skills for speed not the super stick tire purchase. These tire are plenty grippy to have fun in the fastest run groups and drive home on them. Great value and longevity.

The second place car at the 2010 25 hour Thunder Hill race used Nitto NT-01s.

Just called discount tire direct.com they had fronts and claimed a few rears, not sure the reason for short supply or the talk of short supply by the suppliers.

I'm all for people running what ever tire they like and do not want to get in a pissing match about what tire is the best because i think everyone has different needs for tires. I do see many people buying the stickiest tires and not driving the fastest on track because they do not like the car moving around. I like when the car moves around and I like the Value and longevity of the Nittos. What ever makes one happy, do it.

Trey03

Can I really run 315/30R - 245/40F on Nitto NT-01 without rubbing?

I am currently running r6's 295 and 245

Trey

007DT

Yes... Well sort of, you'll get a little rub.

Trey03

I'm assuming the reason everyone does 315s is because they don't make them in the same size as hoosiers?

Trey

JR944

245's and 315's, 36-38psi hot, got 24-25 HC's before cording one rear, fronts still have perhaps 1/3 life left. (8HC's at very coarse track, remainder at very smooth one) Stupid camber for street car @-3.5F, -3R.

Ran some used Hoosiers last weekend and went 1 second faster on home track than best time on NTO1's (1:58 vs. 1:59 High Plains Raceway). Like the RA1's, I think NTO1's are best just before cords. Would love to compare with a fresh set of Hoohoos, but suspect another second on new.

Never have cared for MPSC's. When used really hard, I think they have just a few good laps. Nittos seem more consistent over 20-25 minute session.

Slight rub on inner liner while making sharp turns w/245 fronts. Well.... with my alignment and ride ht, the street 235's rub too.

ex10psi

my experiences have been very similar to this same camber set up too

i have not tried hoohoo's so no comparison there... 245's up front definitely rub even with aggressive camber, it all depends on how you achieved your camber. i am 100% shimmed so believe i get more rubbing than someone who has a combo of shims and rotated strut hats.

i never cared for MPSC's too... pricey, dont last as long, not really faster either (at least in my experience).

AllanJ

Same here re: rubbing issues. Some rubbing in the paddock but never on track.

R6 is definitely faster, but cords sooner and performance really varies over the life of the tire. Depends on what your goals are. I have a pro coach and instead of trying for fastest laps (R6), I have focused on learning how to drive and try to lap closer to my coach's times with Nitto. As Chris said way above, the Nitto is a great learning tire.

Cheers,

FFaust

Been away.

Slow, thanks for clarifying the old v. new stuff way above.

If I can't get the Nittos, it'll be back to Cups for me for now.

himself

Well I had my first weekend on Nittos. These were already scrubbed in, so there were no sticker set issues. I was running 245/315 combo. Here are my impressions - YMMV.

1. The 315 out back is not enough tire for the 245 up front. The car turns in pretty well - and trail braking is still pretty effective - but the back end gets loosey goosey pretty quick mid corner. A little more rubber out back, or a bigger wing would definitely help (rear bar was already at full soft).
2. No rubbing issues, even under the major bumps at this track. In the video below, you can see one of the few mega-bumps.
3. The tires are substantially slower than Hoosiers. Like 3+ seconds a lap at this track. Part of it is earlier braking, part is slower cornering, and part is later throttle pickup.
4. The tires require a lot more slip angle than Hoosiers to get the most out of them. You need another 3-4 degrees of slip angle to really get performance out of the tires.
5. Correcting these tires when driving on slip is very different than Hoosiers. With Hoo-Hoos, you need just a little correction almost when the car starts to get away. With these, you need a hefty dose of countersteer - but input at much slower speeds than the Hoosiers take. [I attribute this to the different slip angle, but it is likely a combination of many factors] It took me 3 sessions to get the right reaction speeds.
6. They wear like iron. After 9 sessions, the wear is barely noticeable. I might get another 3 or 4 weekends out of them at this rate.
7. They are very convenient to drive to the track - which is the best part about them.

Overall, I give them a 6 for performance, but a 10 for usability/compromise and value. I wouldn't use them primarily, but when I need to drive to the track, they are a decent tire.

Here's a short example of how forgiving they are. [ignore the captions, I'm using this as a CPR training video]

.

-td

ex10psi

watched the vid... something to keep in mind with the nt01's, at least in my experience they are very sensitive to tire pressure, particularly in the rear. when the temps get too high they get a bit loose. i like them at about 38-39 HOT in the rear, a little higher is ok in the front. anything higher than 39psi in the rear and things get a bit loose, can be fun

SH || NC

I can totally identify with your #5 assessment.

At my last track event I started to loose the rear end on throttle input, high RPM, and I could not correct enough with my hands still on the wheel. I had to let go, spin the wheel freely, then try to bring it back to neutral. I didn't do it correctly, and had a big tank slapper before looping off track. Now I don't feel so bad.

I still like them for learning though, and their wear durability helps me maintain a state of happiness with the CFO.