va122

Hey, what diff is on the right in your avitar? I recognize mine on the left.

multi21

It's too long to get into at 10:15 p.m., but let's just say that everyone has an opinion on everything and often these opinions conflict. As a result, most people over think things such as mods and what they will do for a car or it's performance.

I'll give one prime example that I know 99% of the people on this board will disagree with. Toe-links. There is not one person on this board that has ever said that you don't need aftermarket rear toe-links. All I've read is the stock ones suck, they don't hold the alignment, etc. etc. This is from very experienced people on this board I highly respect to newbies with this car.

Well when I first bought the car, I left them in to get a "baseline" for what the car will do and how it will react and then I check on it to make sure it didn't get out of whack. A person needs to get a feel, I believe, for the car in stock form and adjust from there.

What I found was that the stock toe-links were just fine, but I wanted to get an opinion from a suspension set up guru, someone that I wasn't going to take the car to for service to try to sell me something I didn't need. He confirmed that the stock ones are fine and gave the name of a race shop with former pro level wrenches that seconded what he said.

Now, given that I've had the car a little bit and I'm extracting all that I can from it, there are somethings that would certainly make it better, FOR ME, to improve the performance. My point is that the driver has to come up to a certain level to get all they can from a great "out of the box" car and then move on with mods to the next level to get the most performance from the car and driver.

Ahmet

I couldn't agree more with the above. I think a stock 996 GT3 is just dandy for track use. Some people I respect also swear by some modifications (shock valving and toe links are the prominent ones), but I disagree. My favorite "waste" mod is the lightweight flywheel however.

The only things I would do are seats, harnesses and a roll bar, and that's mostly because the stock U.S. seats are inadequate for the performance envelope of the car. Add rcomps if you want to go faster, but even that's not necessary, particularly in the beginning... A stock 996 GT3 ought to be an intimidating step up in performance from an SC. For a street car, it generates rather high terminal speeds, making the safety upgrades even more important.

blake

I don't know Pete... I agree that revalving is a "nice to have" but not a necessity. However, I disagree with your assertion around the rear toe links. The cost of the mod is @ $500 and installation can be done yourself. I view this as inexpensive "insurance" b/c I was spending more than that annually for alignments. Since the *upgrade*, the car had been rock solid...

So back to this thread. When I purchased my '04 GT3 in 2006, I installed the following upgrades:

1) upgraded to racing brake pads (front and rear, Pagid 19 and 14) <cost: $700>
2) upgraded the brake fluid (Castrol SRF)<cost: $150>
3) upgraded to Cup brake ducts in the front <cost: $250>
4) upgraded the rear toe links (TRG) <cost: $500>
5) purchase the shims for the rear wing to play around with the feel <cost: $25 from memory>
6) installed the Euro Seats b/c I couldn't keep my butt planted in the stock seats in corners <cost: $1300 for the driver-side>

On my first track day, I crumbled the stock pads and almost boiled the stock fluid. After moving to race pads and track fluid, I still wasn't getting enought cooling. Rennlisters suggested Cup ducts, and I installed them AND they really do work... No problems since.

Regarding the other mods? Maybe I'll do the LWFW and look into the pulley issue. Mayeb I'll revalve or install Motons or JRZs. So far, I've had no RMS leaks so that has not been an issue. I have had the coolant problem (ask Datax) where my coolant hoses pop off on a hot track day because they get old and brittle *fast* so I replace my hoses once a year during the spring...

What I will do this offseason is 1) add safety equipment (DAS bar, fire extinguisher) and 2) install Traqmate and a RaceCam so I can chart actual data and improve my driving...

All in all, it is a great track car! Well worth the money IMHO... And if you are really committed, rent a garage at the track, add a lift, and spend your weekends there working on the cars... Now that makes the experience even better!

-Blake

P.J.S.

FWIW I think the LWFW is one of the best mods that I have done... and I do not consider it to be a waste mod... I would admit it if I did...

Stock the car is great for DE duty except for the seats and factory alignment... and as other have said, brake fluid, pads, etc... and toe links

996FLT6

Va122- that's my fried oem LSD on the right. With regards to toe links if u do autocrosses mark the position of the ecentric bolt and look to see if it has moved- u be surprised it has moved. Of coarse autocross is way more harsher on the suspension then a track but it's safe insurance at $500 to prevent movement. Mike

datax

I drove the car 100% stock for first 10 months of ownership. Alignment from previous owner. Really struggled with high speed stability. My discovery is that alignment is the key in a GT3. A good alignment is the most important modification you can do it to a car. I spent roughly $2000 just to align the car to where I want it to be and not all alignment shops do a good job also.

Regarding about the toe links, stock ones are fine for a stock tires only. With sticker tires, you can definitely tell the rear end is not consistent. Around the sharp turns that also has sudden elevation changes, I can promise you that you can tell the difference between stock toe links vs aftermarket ones (considering you have sticky tires on). Here's an example of a turn I am talking about. Very sharp right, left and long left with sudden elevation changes. It's depends on where you're going for DEs really. Some tracks, you may not even need to upgrade to toe links like Pete was saying as you can't tell much difference.



^^^ That's a track an hour away from where I live. It's not big but has 17 or some turns. Many considered an AutoX track because it's very tight, technical and crucial for handling. Got 1:44 first year and :41 second year time trial. I was on MPSCs on first year and R888s for second. Not sure upgraded toe links gives me how much time but it was definitely easier to drive. Everything on the car is stock apart from rims and no muffler and seat.

va122

On my first track day, I crumbled the stock pads .

Oh yea, i remember that happened to me too, the metal to metal contact scared the crap out of me. PCNA sent out a bullitin to the dealers that the stock pads are not designed for track temps and will fall apart.

va122

Va122- that's my fried oem LSD on the right. With regards to toe links if u do autocrosses mark the position of the ecentric bolt and look to see if it has moved- u be surprised it has moved. Of coarse autocross is way more harsher on the suspension then a track but it's safe insurance at $500 to prevent movement. Mike

Mike that's what i thought about the diff. Huge difference moving to the guard.

It wasn't me talking about the toe links, I have the ERP monoball, with bump adjust. First thing i did on the car after my first track day when the rear toe went out at WSIR T8 at 140mph. Code brown indeed.

FWIW: the stock suspension taught me car control like you wouldn't believe, i had a flat in my race at fontana on the banking and i owe my survival to the GT3's "quirks". I'm not as gentle on the equipment as Pete is so for my application the CUP/RSR upgrades were critical FOR ME. I thought i was buying Porsche's all conquering track car, and it is a great platform, but when you get near the limits that's when she'll bite you. The limit is pretty high out of the box, you'll know when you're there.

Holger B

+1

multi21

LOL, I knew the toe-link comments would bring out a lot of opinions.

Let me clarify as I've been contact privately questioning my opinions. These are only my opinions and what is best for me. Everyone is different and I don't want to imply my car is bone stock, because the first thing I did was get GT3 seats as I was slipping and sliding on the stock seats so much, I couldn't concentrate on driving, but more like, "hanging on".

The first thing I did was change to GT3 seats (necessary for track use), harnesses, teq bar and fire extinquisher (all safety for my piece of mind).

I used the OEM pads and rotors for about 3 track days before changing the pads out for Pagid yellows. The OEM rotors were fine, but didn't last long enough. I went with the Cup rotors and they have a little more life than OEM, but it's because I changed to Cup cooling ducts (necessary for longevity of front rotors). I'll probably go with slotted rotors next, not because the car needs it, but because of longevity reasons.

My LSD burned out, but dealer said it was within specs. I didn't want to fight with them on this issue and was advised by a 20 year master mechanic to just change it out and don't bother with the factory one. I drove the car for another 8 months and learned to drive the car without a workin LSD to see where the limits were without this. After it appeared the thing was completely fried, I had it taken out of the car and sent to someone who this suspension guru knew about. Guard wanted a fortune. This place that was recommended to me does 1 cup car LSD per week and returned my LSD back, with shipping, for $229. Guard wanted 10 times the amount.

IMO, I believe I've extracted the most I can from the car because on certain track, I'm wanting for less body roll, and feel it needsstiffer springs/shocks. That wasn't the case when I first bought the car.

I also feel the 996 GT3 needs more downforce. On back to back runs a 997 GT3 RS and my car, the RS felt very planted around the oval at CalSpeedway. I had more steering imput in my car. Yes, the RS has a wider track etc., but I believe it's the larger rear wing because on the sweeper at Buttonwillow, compared to a club racer in his BMW, he'll either gain on me when I'm ahead or stretch when he's ahead on this sweeper. This guy, who is a very good racer, has a huge amount of downforce in the form of a large rear deck wing, and flicks on the front air dam.

I haven't driven a 996 GT3 with an RS wing, maybe Victor could give us his insite into what he's felt with the stock wing vs. the RS wing and if it makes a difference.

As far as street tires vs. r comps, quite simply the tires are the biggest thing you can do for this car. At Spring Mountains full course, I was 11 seconds faster going from street tires to just rear r comps. When I put on a set of corded Hoosier R6s, the time dropped another 2 seconds.

I don't find the car enjoyable on street tires at the track at all. Maybe that is a "necessity" from an enjoyment point of view if you have this car.

997gt3north

- i need a stock 997gt3 LSD rebuilt - can you give us the shop name
- i changed the wing on my 997gt3 to the RS wing and it does make a difference at highspeeds (i run it at 10 degress) - you absolutely can "feel it"
- Hoosier R6s on a gt3 makes the car feel like a totally different car

996FLT6

+1 - with RS wing on 6gt3 + front cup splitter the added downforce from the rear u can go thru highspeed kinks/sweepers with aplomb. I use 8 degree adapters. Too bad they are so fking expensive now. I bought a used one. Mike

mooty

since everyone is expressing their opinion here is mine.

996RS wing didn't make any difference for me compared to stock GT3 wing (i do have cup front splitter, only b/c it's cheaper than oem). but bear in mind i do mostly thunderhill, laguna and infineon. there aren't too many 100mph turns, if at all.

BUT, for 997, the RS is much much more stable than non RS. i dont know if it's due to the wing or track width, or longer wheel base, but there is no question and it is NOT subtle either.

LWF: i had 6gt3 with and without LWF. zero difference to me. blip, heel and toe, nothing. feel same, other than flywheel rattle in neutral. b/n 7gt3 and 7RS, again i feel no difference.

toe links: i used to run stock toe links on my first two GT3's. never had a prob. i like to hit curbs including the big alligator teeth at the old laguna as well as button willow. rear toe never changed every time we checked. i chk alignment every 3-4 weeks. BUT on my third GT3, it cannot hold toe. the toe goes off if you just stared at it. the car was hard to drive and every time we measured it, toe was off. changed to after mkt links, problem solved (you also need locking plate to replace the eccentrics). so i dont know if YOUR car's toe will or will not change. but i much rather spend $5-600 to get the linx rather than finding out that my car suddenly had toe out when i am making a high speed turn.

other mods: seats, harness, bar, pads, motul 600, toyo's, hoosiers, mpsc

shocks: moton on some of my cars. they are nice to have. they are more confidence inspiring, but they are also very spendy. with just monoball rear top mount, springs, shox and labor... about 7-8k minimum...oh add tax too.

996FLT6

Now u know why Mooty has difficulty with discerning mods- see his past collection of cars. One after another : ). But I agree with out of the box the 7gt3rs is great out of the box. Mike