Scouser

This is long but if you own a pre 02 996 or 986 I urge you to read it.......

Many of us pre 02 996 (C2/C4) and 986 owners are starting to
experience serious problems with our Porsche cars typically before they even
reach 30,000 miles on the clock.....and despite having them fully serviced
by Porsche main dealers. From what I understand there are more than
170 TSBs out for the Carrera model alone. Common reported faults range from
serious problems such as blown engines, RMS (Rear [crancshaft] Main Seal),
gearbox problems, clutches burning out at below 10k miles to nagging issues
such as Cabriolet top noise, MAF sensors, and much more. I have communicated
with 996 owners who have experienced cracked gearbox bell housings, engines
blowing up, breaks failing and so on. One 99 986 owner I spoke to had no less
than two replacement engines. That makes 3 including its factory shipped engine!

In most cases our cars are never tracked but even if they were, this
marque is supposed to be a unique "sports car" and we buy these cars
to drive them hard and "tracking" them is to be expected. It is after all
the "ultimate" sports car save maybe for a Ferrari. It is not a Lexus,
Mercedes or a BMW. No sir! This is *not* a luxury car and it was not
designed to be a luxury car. It's a seriously expensive performance
enhanced sports car and only a lucky few like you and me get the pleasure of
owning one. The fact is, these cars are not cheap. They are seriously
expensive both to purchase and run. Having said that, I think you will all
agree that despite this car being touted as a "daily driver", we don't
realy expect its running costs to be "typical" of any normal daily driver.
We know before we buy the car (even if we don't want to admit it to
ourselves) that this car will be expensive to run.

However, this marque is supposed to be bread from the greatest and most
technologically advanced German engineering to date and while we except
that a car of this calibre will be expensive to run, we also expect it
to be reliable and have a build quality far exceeding that of other
less expensive marques. To quote from the 996 drivers manual, Dr Ing.
h.c. F. Porsche says:

"Dear Customer.

We thank you for the trust you have shown in buying this car and
congratulate you on your new 911.

As far as we know, no other vehicle can look back on a tradition like the
911. This 911 retains the fundamental values of its predecessors. And
yet it represents a combination of tradition and innovation which is truly
unique."

To further quote from the Service Dealer Directory:

"you decided in favour of a Porsche sports car and we thank you for
your confidence. Your vehicle incorporates all our experience as
specialized sports car manufacturer and was built with the utmost care.
Porsche After-Sales Service will ensure that quality and reliability
which distinguishes your Porsche will be long maintained."

This is how I interpret these words:

"I can expect this innovative and uniquely specialized sports car to be
reliable because I am confident that the extortionate ammount of
hard earned cash that I payed to own it, will ensure that I experience
this specialized sports car manufactured quality and reliability.
Furthermore, the Porsche After-Sales Service that my car is undergoes
according to its Scheduled service intervals, will ensure
that this quality and reliability will be maintained."

Having said all this, I question all these issues: relability, build quality,
After sales service that ensures maintainability, and so on.
What is Porsche going to do about it?

stratpa

Scouser:
This is dead on and very articulate. I will vote above but also want to go on record saying that I have been underwhelmed by the quality of my $90K 996 cab.

My real questions is : "why don't we organize oursleves and mobilize to get Porsche to do something tangible for us rather than just rant to one another on line ?"

Any suggestions from anybody on how to get this done welcome. Let's rise up!!!!

Palting

Stratpa,

As consumers, our best weapon is our pocket. We don't like it, we don't buy it.

Scouser

strapta,
Thanks for your support. Actually I did have another paragrpah but I struck it off in the hope that someone else would say it. And you said it!
Basically I wanted to see how everyone felt about the problems before
screaming out.

Here's my last paragraph that I deleted before posting:

It is time we all stood up and spoke out loud to the manufacturer. We are
unhappy, dissilusioned, out-of-pocket and without any confidence in
this car. If there is enough support from fellow rennlisters, I am offereing to follow these issues up with the Porsche magazine press and also to drive my car to Stuttgart and demand some answers in protest from Porsche direct. I plan to park the car out in front of the main headquater gates to the factory with a placard "in German and English" saying that we rennlisters demand immediate action to put right these issues. I plan to leave the car there until I am told by an authority to move it. But I am not doing this alone. I need full support from everyone.

So. Who else is willing to sign up to this?

Scouser

Palting.
Your right of course but only if you haven't already forked out for the car.

Certainly I would not ever consider buying another one of these cars.

JimB

It will be interesting to see how the poll comes out. I've always suspected that the people having big problems were the vocal minority but I could be wrong.

My 99 996 has had a hard life. I've owned it since new and in that time I've used it as a daily driver, used it as a track car, used it as a club racer and finally as safety equipment test bed when I was knocked into the wall at well over 100 mph. I'm not sure I could have asked for any more out of a car. It was great as a daily driver. I had an RMS problem and a couple other small issues but they were fixed promptly with no hassle. We have two great dealers and a bunch of good independents in MN. As a combo street/track car it worked flawlessly. There aren't many cars you can just slap a set of Hoosiers on and beat the living day lights out of the way you can a 996. As a club racer it was a little off the pace but it's in a class with the 993 RS and 993 TT. It was also my first year of racing so it might not have been all the cars fault.

At Road America a car I was passing put two wheels off, over corrected and came back across the track, hitting me on the driver's side and riding me into the wall at a high rate of speed. Every body panel was destroyed and every suspension piece on the right side was broken but the chassis/tub was barely tweeked. 1 inch off center, 1/2 inch off flat. This is not a poorly built car!

I'm not saying the 996 is perfect and I'm not saying that Porsche shouldn't continue to improve but I am saying they have a few happy customers out here.

BTW, we're well into rebuilding the car and will be back next year with a little less weight and a little more HP to have another go at it.
Jim

winovin

I think the poll is poorly designed, since it biases responses towards a negative answer - the "midpoint" is "Unreliable: Not Very Happy"

TT Gasman

Berny, I have been quite happy, maybe lucky based on some posts. I 've only had a few minor issues like CELs in the first year, it has been nearly trouble free in 4 years of ownership. Not a drip or a puff of smoke, and I track it every chance I get. What other car can you drive hard at the track and put in a CD and drive home and to work everyday. I'm sorry for your troubles and I hope everything gets resolved.

MJones

15 months and 21,000 road miles including autox and a track visit on Laguna Seca
A problem free great ride!

Toreador

I've driven mine from Stuttgart, to Austria, Italy, Monaco, France, and back to Stuttgart. Then for over 14 months here in California, from stop and go traffic to 145mph on freeways to 2 track days at Buttonwillow with no problem.

AeroSmith

It is interesting that well over 80% of respondants have had no major problems.

Here's hoping my 2003 C2 with 2,500 miles stays in that group. Knock on wood, so far so good.....

stratpa

Here are a few humble perspectives:

a- I am a die hard Porsche driver. I think the cars are great and will probably keep driving them forever

b- Part of the reputation of the car is build on its engineering and robustness and we pay a hefty premium for that

c- I am not saying "let's not buy Porsches". What I am saying is let's hold Prosche to its promise and take care of ALL Porsche drivers and cars out there (not just the lucky unvocal majority).

d- My car has been in the shop one week per month each of the last 6 despite the fact that I treat it better than a family member. I am about to run out of warranty and I am terrified of what this is going to cost me going forward. We may be an unlucky minority, but we have as much right as all the others to get as much pleasure out of our 996 as they do.

e- It would be nice to get support from the majority to help sensitize Porsche and to do something for us (like perhaps extend our warranty on chronic issues a couple of years or something)

f- It is all fun and games until it happens to you....

Gretch

4 years and 50k miles. Zero problems. Maybe my experience is the outlier...., but my expectations were set by my 928 experience. Now THAT car can be a high maintenance girl..............

...........And the car's performance still blows me away..............

I do have sympathy (if not empathy) for you who have had problems though. Nothing more vexing than paying a bunch for something and not being happy with your purchase.....

Scouser

It is interesting indeed the stats so far. I think it was/is a fair poll. The negative comments made no difference so far to the 80+% who are more
than happy with their cars.

I have this poll up for 30 days so lets see how it goes. I will keep bumping it to ensure it stays current.

Incidentally, I have had my 996 since new. 3 years on and 27,000 miles it
never once gave me a problem. The most expensive service was £400 and
that was its forst major. Up to then I was more than happy with my car. I
would have voted for "Very Happy" if the poll was them. But one month out of warranty and it all started to go wrong: RMS, header tank and
now gearbox. I am convinced that if my problems had happened in the US
this would have all been taken care off with Porsche good-will. But here
in the UK...well I rest my case.

Keep the comments comin....and thanx for voting and your support.

Todd in PA

'02 986 S, 14,000 miles and absolutely perfect so far. Not even one warranty claim! Squeaks and rattles when the top is up are overlooked, but that's the extent of it.Hope your problems diminish and you become happy with the car.
Todd
Emmaus, PA
PPBB Member