porsche951

Someone on these boards was posting recently about they do rebuilds for $10k plus your core. A lot of money but better than some of the other quoted prices I've seen. Honestly I feel bad for you. If I was in same position I'd consider a rebuild if $10k was the max but beyond that I'd sell as a roller.

dcdrechsel

Free advice is worth what you paid for it but I would look seriously at a RND engine .It has the right stuff -specifically new cylinders plus the tolerances would be right .Jake and Charles have made a significant investment in what these engines need to be reliable .

Triple Black

Sorry to hear about your troubles - it really sucks. I had a blown engine last year and went through the same dilemma - sell the car as a roller, rebuild, or find a replacement engine. In the end I decided I loved the car too much to let it go. I found a used upgraded crate engine with low mileage, and bigger diameter IMSB. Got away for under $20K and I couldn't be happier with my decision. If you are attached to your car there are options out there. My advice - take some time and make the right decision for yourself. As others have said, most likely your core is rebuildable and has trade-in value.

gnat

While it may be tempting given the money you will be losing, don't just dump it on CarMax or somewhere else. What will happen if you do is that some other poor schmuck will be in the same place you are. You don't like being here, don't do it to someone else.

Another option that hasn't been mentioned is to just keep driving it. There is another member here that has been driving his engine for some time with scored cylinders. The oil consumption will continue to increase and sooner or later the metal shedding from the walls will damage other parts and take out the motor (then you won't have a good core), but if you are considering selling it as a roller anyway at least you can try to get your money's worth out of it in the mean time. If you happen to fall in love with it in the meantime, most of your replacement options will still be available.

If you go that route it might be wise to put the LN spin on oil filter on the car as that will not let unfiltered oil (and metal bits) get back into the motor. That might help prolong the inevitable some.

Actually the chances are good that he does have a good core. As Ahsai mentioned, it's going to get resleaved anyway so bore scoring is meaningless for a core exchange.

docmirror

I'm not an expert on the scored cylinder core, but my opinion was based primarily on multiple vendors who will do anything and everything possible to disqualify an engine as core value. Once you've got engaged to an engine shop, and they start stripping down your block, even the tiniest defect of an otherwise good block will push it over into the 'junk' category, which is more a function of the method, than the actual condition of the cases. I'm pretty certain there are many blocks out there that have been declared scrap which are later built up into working engines again. There is also the condition of a sliding core value which may be up to ~$4000, but given the variability in grading usually winds up to be about $600. Profit is after all -- profit.

alpine003

This is another viable option and one I would consider. There's been a few on here that's still driving their cars for a few years now, including track days. This gives you a chance to save up and/or hunt for the right motor that may pop up. This could also buy you time in case LS conversion kits become really cheap with practically plug and play availability.

If you're able to drive it like this for three years or more, it would be similiar to owning a Honda and taking the same depreciation hit while driving an exotic instead, should you decide to sell it as a roller afterwards.

I know it's easy more often than not to have a knee jerk reaction to something like this but if this isn't your primary car, you have time to think things through fortunately.

I would just change your oil often, get a magnetic drain plug, and monitor oil levels and sample analysis if you plan to keep driving it.

Flat6 Innovations

I agree, and this is why we only build the customer's core engine, using it as a foundation. When carrying out our processes I have never assessed a core charge for a scored cylinder. Why? Because all the cylinder's parent material above the water jacket is completely machined away, and replaced with the Nickies cylinder.

There are few companies that work cores from a fair, and balanced method. RND Engines does do this, as they tear down the customer's core and document all the failures with photos, and a core report. The core charges work from a menu, which states costs of each core part up front, so you only pay for whats damaged. This is the way that I developed their engine program, as its always an issue, and a possibility for being unfair.

To me, a failed cylinder is THE BEST failure an engine can have, as it only takes out the parts that we are not going to reuse anyway, IF its caught in time.

Core engine exchange programs seldom work, and smaller companies that lack the capital to do these correctly are generally rebuilding anything they can. This is why companies like Motormeister (RIP) never work in the Porsche world. They kill themselves.

You will always get exactly what you pay for, and the most expensive engine that can be bought, is often the cheapest engine that you can find. Of course, hindsight will prove this, and you don't know, what you don't know. The big glossy ads of these companies fool the best of the best too often. Its all false image, because these people can't build a positive reputation that builds their business from repeat customers, and word of mouth.

That said, though some people have driven these engines making a noise for a good while, its simply not smart. Anyone who has mechanical experience knows why this is the case, because damage creates debris, and debris creates more damage. If you continue to drive an engine with these symptoms all you are doing is costing yourself more and more money, and wasting the critical core components that could otherwise be saved for reconstruction of the engine.

This is a lot like the guy that wanted my engine, but told me his CEL had been illuminated for 6 years, and he kept driving. I sent him to someone else, because I knew how he'd treat my engine.

Mechanical procrastination comes with steep monetary fines.

We get quite a few purchasers who have only had cars for a few months before they fail. In some of these cases, someone knew the engine was failing, as they found debris in the oil, and unloaded the car before it had symptoms. Last year a customer bought a car with 15K miles for his wife's 25th Anniversary gift on July 4, the car was at my facility on July 6 with an engine failure. I could tell you these stories for days, over and over again.

Make a good choice the first time, if you can barely afford to do it once, you can't afford to do it twice.

rotorite

So sorry to hear about your engine, that really sucks. I was in the same situation last year when cylinders 4-6 were found to be scored on my 02 4S, which is also my first Porsche. I am not sure if scored cylinders is common, but I would say maybe a little bit? I may be a bit biased though.

I also weighed out the options that have been discussed: rebuild (either OEM or something with LNE cylinders), get a good used stock engine, drive it, or simply sell the car.

I decided not to just drive it as I was unsure if I wanted to rebuild yet or just sell it as a roller at the time so I did not want to risk damaging anything that I would need to reuse.

I also decided against a used stock engine (unless I planned to sell the car after the used engine was installed) as I would be uncomfortable spending the money on a used engine to have a potential higher possibility of a engine failure VS a rebuilt engine.

My advice would be to if you're not heart set on a Porsche maybe even look at other sports cars in the cost range of a rebuilt/new engine which may be as fun and potentially have less issues. This may help you decide if you really want to stick with a 996 or not.

In my case I found I really liked the experience my 4S offered and did not want to risk this again with another 996. I had looked into a 996 turbo but the price in my area was above what I was looking to spend, so I opted to get an engine rebuild. At the time sending my car to Flat6 was close in price to what my indie and dealer wanted for a stock rebuild, so it was an easy decision for me at that point. Though unlike you, I have had the car for 4 years before this happened so I was a little attached. Good luck!

AWDGuy

I would have gotten a core refund and my cylinders were toast.

dgjks6

OK - I have a plan. I watched a Doug Demuro video last night about Carmax warranties and they seem pretty good. Sell your car to carmax and let me know where it is. I will buy it with the full carmax warranty and then when the engine goes I will have them replace it. Oh, crap - now that I said it, it sounds like fraud. So when it goes down, do not show car max this post.

All kidding aside - Sorry to hear about this. I have been there. First thing to do is decide how much you like/love that car. A new engine - done right - will give you years of enjoyment and you will eventually get your monies worth. But if you are two year and switch - then it is going to be expensive either way.

Arch1t3ct

To be honest, he is not an insignificant reason why I ended up buying a 996

johnireland

How did you feel the day you bought the car? Guess what, it is still the same car. Your engine went south at 70k or more. Lots of cars can have this happen. Rebuilding any engine costs a lot of money today. Porsche (and others) are just at the top of the list. Jake from Flat Six is a wise voice. If the experience has ruined the car for you then sell it as is...and be honest about the state of the engine when you do. You will take the smallest loss. If you wish the car was just as the day you bought it, it can be...just get the engine rebuilt by a quality shop and ten years from now you will still be smiling every day you drive it.

docmirror

This is the method I would likely take. I know what I know about my metal, and if I go with an exchange program, I'm getting mystery metal which someone else has discarded, or cored for a reason. I think keeping what I know is also important to minimize infant mortality issues which is something I've come to loathe. Not that there are unscrupulous vendors out there, but I happen to know there are some shady folks that deal in used/rebuilt/core/custom engines for the 911 that may be suspect. Since you have a well-known following here, I'm pretty confident that a customer can choose your shop with some degree of security - but let's face it, you can't rebuild every engine that goes Tango Uniform, and I suspect your prices are on the high side of the STd curve. NTTAWWT.

Flat6 Innovations

Lots of core programs work from a bunch of engines being taken apart and thrown in a bunch of piles, then engines are built from random parts. This is what causes issues, along with the junkyard mentality that usually goes along with the processes from these types of programs.

The RND program does not do this. The way I designed the program for RND the same core is disassembled, documented, and then machined, and assembled with all of its own components. Each engine stays on a cart with a process number that follows it through each station. The only time a part isn't from that engine is if it had failed, or did not measure in specification, or if it's a new part.

A company like SSF can afford to buy solid cores, and hundreds of thousands of dollars was expended on core engines for the program. Lots of the engines they started with had nothing wrong with them, and ran fine. A fly by night, shoestring budget type of company can't do this. They buy whatever they can for the cheapest price possible and "rebuild" it.

These types of people and companies didn't used to exist with the M96. They were afraid, and had no idea about the engine, then all of a sudden 4-5 years ago they popped up and polluted the industry.

With my program I seldom have situations where an engine has a core issue. I only retain 6 main core components, and everything else is replaced. I have not been accepting engines that have had mega failures for a while now, because we are busy enough that we don't have to. Those are the cases that usually occur on the track, where an engine loses a crankshaft, rods or etc. This usually leads to a total loss of the engine's short block, taking out the main components that we reuse. My entire 2016 schedule will only have one of those engines in question, and I am now filling orders for slots that will have delivery in June of 2017.

I hate it when cores are a variable, and keep me from making someone's exact final proposal the same day that we start the project, and execute the proposal.

My way is the most expensive possible, and the most valuable. It always has been, and always will be.

docmirror

This is the system that's in place for most of the piston aviation engine builders. The entire engine stays in a tray, and each piece has traceability. Parts that don't meet tolerance are discarded(actually discarded, and destroyed), and a new or refurbished part is inspected, and substituted. With each and every component that goes into a piston aviation engine, there is a yellow tag(or green tag as the case may be for new) showing the history of that part.

We have come across unscrupulous parts, and rebuild vendors in the aviation community that we can determine have caused a failure in flight. In some case, we can actually go back and determine the failing component that lead to a fatality. Bad vendors in the aviation community do not last very long.

The disastrous story of Mobil 1 aviation oil will go down in infamy as the prototypical Way To Screw Things Up and kill people. It were a mess...