ZuffenZeus

Martin, with all due respect man... we have a ol' expression down here in Georgia,

"The dog that barks the loudest is usually the one most afraid"

In business, the principle of "Supply and Demand" can be applied to Flat 6 Innovations and Jake's services. There is a limited *supply* of Jake Rabys in this world and a high *demand* for his type of services; therefore, he can name any price he wants as long as someone is willing to pay. Period. He's not forcing anyone to do business with him and I'm sure he's professional enough to provide cost estimates for customers before they agree to move forward. So what's the problem? I've read many of your exchanges with Jake and I'm beginning to wonder if you're not just piggy backing off his popularity on this forum to drum up business. No?

Cheers!

Valkuri

People choose to pay what they choose to pay. Those on this site are neither strapped for cash, nor are they ignorant.
Swatch; Breitling. Both give you the same time of day. Both have their adherents.
Enough with the **** throwing in the monkey cage, mm'kayy? Everyone is, or should be proud of their work: whether they are a 'bargain' or a 'premium' price. Let the buyers decide.

5CHN3LL

Martin has made it obvious that this is precisely what he's doing. He believes he can offer a competitive product for less money, and the back-and-forth in the forums helps both parties more than any number of full-page ads in Panorama. The Raby fanboys stoke the fires and perpetuate the belief that a Flat 6 motor is the next-best-thing to having Jesus hand-build your engine, and Martin gets to be the good guy who supplies a competing product at an "affordable" price.

An unsolicited aside: the real villain in this 996 engine game isn't Raby, and it's not Martin...it's Porsche. Porsche has the means to run a crate engine program like other car manufacturers; such a program should even be profitable. However, Porsche is far less interested in selling me a crate M96 than in selling me a new 911, or maybe a Macan, or anything else rolling off the Porsche assembly lines right now. Despite its claim for having such a meaningful relationship with its customers - and contrary to the recent assurances that the 996 is a "classic" that Porsche will be supporting ad infinitum - what we see from Germany when we go looking for a reliable source of 996 engines is a fully extended, very pale, nicely manicured German middle finger.

Exactly. Raby vs. MB isn't a Hyundai-vs-Bugatti comparison...it's Cayman-vs-911 or Bentley-vs-Rolls. A rebuilt M96, regardless of whose name is on the bill of lading, is a boutique product being sold to an affluent few. The arguments that Raby is discriminating against those "unfortunate" 911 owners who can't afford a Flat 6 build and that MB is some kind of Robin Hood championing the cause of the less-fortunate luxury car owner are equally laughable.

gnat

I actually prefer that middle finger from them for 2 reasons.

The first is that even though the settled the class action, they still don't really admit to there being anything wrong. At least not enough that they were change that part of the motor. So if we could still get a motor from them, it would still have all the same weak points we already know and love.

Secondly, as seen just before the last of the long blocks disappeared, what they would charge would make Jake's prices seem like a bargain!

MBMotorsports

If this site had an option of "like" I'd give you a million likes for this post JR's work is very good just like ours, if someone wants to pay him, great. I just don't feel like reading his posts humiliating other rebuilders while exalting himself. It shows how insecure he is creating a picture of himself like he is the only person capable to work on those motors. He doesn't need it, I told him that a long time ago. Maybe you don't like it but if I see him bragging I will pinpoint it every time I see it.

alpine003

Consumers are the winners here having choices and multiple options. Some of the old timers here didn't always have that. My $.02

Valkuri

5chn3ll has again nailed the crucial central issue (insightful b*st*rd...)
The offender is Porsche. They resell the same 60's and 70's warm, fuzzy racing imagery to one after another generation of CONSUMERS: for that is all they consider their buyers. Why, then should we look at them any differently?
Look, I've had five Porsches; some among you still HAVE five, or more. I like 'em. A lot. But they are made by a bunch of utterly self-interested corporate drones, who use their devoted and somewhat gullible core devotees to then sell ten million Macans and Cayennes to a bunch of wealthy soccer moms, and nouveau riche Chinese. Which is one reason I simply won't buy a new Porsche. If I'm going to get ****ed, I prefer to have it done by a friend, not a car company. I'll give my money to the current owner, keep the money stateside, and pay indies locally and far away to repair or improve my vehicle. And let Porsche become the truck manufacturer they've apparently always wanted to be.

5CHN3LL

Lots of people buy LSx crate motors as the starting point for a build - maybe it'll get roller rockers or a nice lumpy cam before it gets dropped into the car.

As far as price - Porsche already knows how to build "affordable" engines - if it cost them $30K to build a motor, the base price for a Macan wouldn't be $47.5K or a Cayman for starting at ~$52K.

I realize it will never happen - but damn, I wish it would.

alpine003

I'm just waiting for the $800 painted key fob option now that VW is hurting and will have to make up for their losses in creative ways.

Waiting for that made in Mexico sub assembly to be in future Porsches with VW window switches or climate control *****.

gnat

We all know that there really isn't that much special about the motor to justify the price they were charging (and would again if they believed there was a market worth pursuing, but you are correct about their focus).

Hell the crush washer on my Cayenne diesel was something like $2.50 the last time I asked a Porsche dealer (the parts guy looked rather offended by my hysterical laughing). As it's a Audi/VW motor I asked him for the price of the Audi part (I gave him the number) since they are a combo Audi/Porsche dealer. $1.75 and he didn't have a clue he was looking at the same part. I then swung by a VW dealer on the way home and picked up a handful at $0.50 each

If they can charge 5x for something that they had no part in designing or manufacturing (beyond slapping a Porsche P/N on it), why wouldn't they want $40k something for they at least had some part of creating?

sweet victory

Meh. Europe has its own Mexico. It's called Eastern Europe.

gnat

Waiting? That's been here for awhile though you might think it a bargain at $500 or whatever ridiculous price they were asking when I bought my P!g.

5CHN3LL

I think we're both saying the same thing. The rub is that Porsche is still pointing at cool old racing posters and saying, "Look! Such heritage! Much motorsport!" and feeding us the propaganda we want to hear ("That raggedy *** car you insist on driving is a classic! We'll support it forever!") while in reality focusing on loading out fancy minivans with *** warmers ($1,560), power rear window shades ($450), and back seat DVD players to absolve parents from having to interact with their children ($2,890).

"Sell you a new engine? Why would we sell you a new engine when we could just sell you a new car? That would be stupid!"

I believe that Porsche now wants to sell you the cars you will drive TO the track instead of cars you would drive ON the track - and while I dearly love my 996 and don't ever plan to part ways, I can see that it was the middle child. It will never quite be a track rat like its big brother, and it certainly isn't a snooty champagne-brunch-eating lardass younger sister...

Valkuri

I was inches away from buying a new Corvette 18 months ago, and was at the dealership looking at one. Sitting two spaces down from it was, I believe a 997. Upon query, the sales guy said "Oh, that's the sales manager's car. He loves that thing."

I bought my C4s six weeks later.
Dummy. I should have bought the better car, instead.
But no, no: I had to fall for the 'distinguished heritage, constant evolution, engineered by the Master Race' nonsense one more time.

Love that car. But they are just NOT the best thing out there for the money. There. I said it.
I've never had, nor liked Corvettes nor Camaros. But they are arguably the $60,000 Ferrari and $40,000 Porsches of the current market. Only exclusivity keeps Porsche where they are: and even that is getting a bit thin.

OK, aficionados: Let me have it. I'm ready for the flames.

DoubleNutz

Jake, love ya brutha and I love my Corps... but some of the things I know we did to repair our CH53's 'on the fly' to get them to fly was, at the time, hilarious to me. But hell, we got away with it, and flew another day. But in hindsight I wonder how the hell we ever got away with it , like flying the dogshyt out of a high time gearbox just to make it to a squadron max launch(LOL). Man, those were the days, for real.

Just tug'n your timing chain brother... I would not fly with any other branch other than "The Few, The Proud", because I've also seen what it takes for the other branches just to get their aircraft out of the damn barn (KNOOoooT). Marines, we made it work, and work properly EVERY TIME!

SF