LN Engineering Ceramic IMS Bearing Failure at 30k miles
04-24-2015, 11:36 AM
#121
04-24-2015, 12:14 PM
#122
Race Director
04-24-2015, 12:34 PM
#123
Former Vendor
I have another Patent pending that I did just for the hell of it... No one would ever do it, but I decided to protect it anyway. You guys aren't that far off!!!
:-)
:-)
Last edited by Flat6 Innovations; 04-24-2015 at 12:52 PM.
04-24-2015, 01:34 PM
#124
Drifting
Thank you Jake for persisting with this subject and this thread .You have little to gain from participating and the silly posts must get irritating. Particularly when you go in to such detail to explain why things work/don't work.
Your correction of the assertions like the one below help us dismiss the 'technical' nonsense which so easily convinces most of us. I totally accepted the cam deviation = IMSB wear assertion and nobody except you refuted it.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. And I am amused that some Poster came close to guessing the concept of your new product to address the misalignment issue. Identifying the misalignment was your work because even Martin discredits that theory !
I hope the OP understands that the 'fix' he bought(roller bearing) is unlikely to work any better than the hybrid ball bearing that just failed so quickly. Perhaps he will postpone further work on his engine repair until Martin's new bearing is available.
I hope the OP will share the outcome with us all here on RL.
Your correction of the assertions like the one below help us dismiss the 'technical' nonsense which so easily convinces most of us. I totally accepted the cam deviation = IMSB wear assertion and nobody except you refuted it.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. And I am amused that some Poster came close to guessing the concept of your new product to address the misalignment issue. Identifying the misalignment was your work because even Martin discredits that theory !
I hope the OP understands that the 'fix' he bought(roller bearing) is unlikely to work any better than the hybrid ball bearing that just failed so quickly. Perhaps he will postpone further work on his engine repair until Martin's new bearing is available.
I hope the OP will share the outcome with us all here on RL.
Incorrect. The cam deviations have nothing to do with a misaligned IMS and cannot be used to diagnose such a condition.
It takes considerable IMSB wear to show up as a cam deviation as well, and even then it will ONLY impact bank 1, as the end of the IMS thats supported by the IMSB only drives bank 1. I typically find cam deviations that are measurable well into Stage 3 IMSB failure; but, not before.
I do not agree with his statement, or theory at all.
The misalignment will not show cam deviations, because it is both very slight and also because the cam timing procedure and hydraulic chain tensioner will mask this.
The only way to find this slight misalignment (measured in thousandths of an inch") is by using a precision device that measures three different dimensions simultaneously giving an actual value.
A slight misalignment is HUGE to the IMSB as it places loads in a localized region of the inner race.
It takes considerable IMSB wear to show up as a cam deviation as well, and even then it will ONLY impact bank 1, as the end of the IMS thats supported by the IMSB only drives bank 1. I typically find cam deviations that are measurable well into Stage 3 IMSB failure; but, not before.
I do not agree with his statement, or theory at all.
The misalignment will not show cam deviations, because it is both very slight and also because the cam timing procedure and hydraulic chain tensioner will mask this.
The only way to find this slight misalignment (measured in thousandths of an inch") is by using a precision device that measures three different dimensions simultaneously giving an actual value.
A slight misalignment is HUGE to the IMSB as it places loads in a localized region of the inner race.
04-24-2015, 02:12 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
He has a lot to gain, it's part of his business model.
04-24-2015, 03:18 PM
#127
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: 40th Anni. South OC, CA
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There are bearing retaining compounds which will accept a misalignment of .015" or more.
As with any adhesive, preparation of surfaces is everything.
This would require a slightly smaller bearing OD than the housing bore size which would be determined by the amount of misalignment.
This would not eliminate the misalignment, but it would relieve the misalignment occurring within the bearing.
Paul
As with any adhesive, preparation of surfaces is everything.
This would require a slightly smaller bearing OD than the housing bore size which would be determined by the amount of misalignment.
This would not eliminate the misalignment, but it would relieve the misalignment occurring within the bearing.
Paul
04-24-2015, 04:57 PM
#129
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
A perfect example how more than one person can come up with the same idea without knowing what each of them is thinking. Same thing happened with the “Solution bearing”. A fellow RLer and I came up with the same idea (to use a simple bearing to replace the ball bearing in the IMS). This was before anything was announced from Flat Six. It’s documented on this board in the in my engine repair thread on the Canadian Forum. You took your idea, same idea we had, to an actual product and that’s excellent but people can and often do come to the same conclusion when a problem is presented. As a rough example, if the Wright Brothers didn’t fly, someone else would have and the airplane would have been invented either way.
04-24-2015, 05:08 PM
#131
It amuses me to see people that seem to resent Jake making any statements about the bearings or engines because God Forbid he may get a customer once in a while. Most on here will never have Jake or his shop touch their cars yet many have benefited from his posts.
04-24-2015, 05:27 PM
#132
Racer
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WTF did you write in the last paragraph?!?! Sweet baby Jeebus! You are an expert at arguing but most of it is BS because you don't have the faintest idea what the F you are talking about. Trust me on this. You are wrong, this is a technical forum and this is a technical thread. There are lawyers here that actually do their own wrenching and know what they are talking about......you are not one of them. Trust me on this. 
. Yes, I'm an expert not because I can put my car back together BUT because I can take it apart and do it over and over and over again, like I have been for the better part of 30 years. BUT I also do have an engineering degree of sort too and been to courts as an expert witness. So......instead of arguing about earthquakes and rearends, why not grab a wrench and start taking your lawnmower apart for starters? You might learn a thing or two on a subject that you know nothing of. Peace out Cousin Vinny!
. Yes, I'm an expert not because I can put my car back together BUT because I can take it apart and do it over and over and over again, like I have been for the better part of 30 years. BUT I also do have an engineering degree of sort too and been to courts as an expert witness. So......instead of arguing about earthquakes and rearends, why not grab a wrench and start taking your lawnmower apart for starters? You might learn a thing or two on a subject that you know nothing of. Peace out Cousin Vinny!
04-24-2015, 06:31 PM
#133
04-24-2015, 07:52 PM
#134
Former Vendor
Just a vendor hater that hates to see anyone profit from his hobby..
I made my profits from IMNSB development years ago. It hasn't been "part of the business model" since the release of the last development. I develop, its what I do, and I am paid per development without royalties or commissions, I don't have time for all the crap.
I made my profits from IMNSB development years ago. It hasn't been "part of the business model" since the release of the last development. I develop, its what I do, and I am paid per development without royalties or commissions, I don't have time for all the crap.
04-24-2015, 08:13 PM
#135
Rennlist Member
We should go back to the LN IMS Failure!!!!
