1st m96.3 rebuild I just have one question...?
04-12-2015, 10:12 PM
#91
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
It was a cheap way to half *** fix the engine. In the long run or short run it will end up costing more than if it was done right. I hope the buyer understands about the half *** fix before he lays out his money, at least if he is aware all is fair. If I bought a car without knowing anything about 3 cylinders having different bores and heavier wrist pins to make up for lighter pistons etc there would be problems when I found out if I could still find the seller.
04-12-2015, 10:41 PM
#92
Three Wheelin'
04-12-2015, 10:42 PM
#93
Jake, if i could ask a couple of questions. My plan for engine #2 is to pick up a set of case halves and ship them to LN for sleeves. Do they check/correct the distance and alignment of the crank to IMS bore you referred to earlier? If so I'm assuming they would need my bearing carrier in hand to do so, right? Is it even possible to align bore the crank centerline of the bearing carrier? It seems very, uh, "substantial" so maybe that part is redundant.
Thanks tons for your continued input to these threads.
04-12-2015, 11:00 PM
#94
With a bore scoring failure is there any concern about where the actual metal from the cylinders went? I ask because it seems like something that could bite you down the road post rebuild.
04-13-2015, 02:54 AM
#95
Former Vendor
This engine has many things that are not in its favor. Let's remember, the guy assembling it also didn't know how to carry out the cam timing procedure.
Yeah. Runs perfect, after I gave him the silver bullet!
Damn, I really never should;d have replied to his post with any help at all!
04-13-2015, 10:13 AM
#96
"Damn, I really never should;d have replied to his post with any help at all!"
Jake: I have watched the progression of this post strictly due to your involvement. There was no way at the start that you could have know this was a hack job. Stop beating yourself up. As you stated, you see the "cheap" repairs in your shop all the time and that there will always be those who will try to do things on the cheap. Very frustrating for one such as you who actually knows better. It is discouraging to us all. I used to race sprint cars and if we "dropped a cylinder" the whole deal was rebuilt not just repaired! Keep doing what your doing and know that the information you share here is valuable to those who want to do it right or just to understand/learn.
Thank you.
Jake: I have watched the progression of this post strictly due to your involvement. There was no way at the start that you could have know this was a hack job. Stop beating yourself up. As you stated, you see the "cheap" repairs in your shop all the time and that there will always be those who will try to do things on the cheap. Very frustrating for one such as you who actually knows better. It is discouraging to us all. I used to race sprint cars and if we "dropped a cylinder" the whole deal was rebuilt not just repaired! Keep doing what your doing and know that the information you share here is valuable to those who want to do it right or just to understand/learn.
Thank you.
04-13-2015, 10:32 AM
#97
I'd really like the OP to list the last few numbers of the VIN here so that any future owner that comes here with any issues(if any) can be tracked to this repair.
04-13-2015, 10:48 AM
#98
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
So what that he didn't know the cam timing procedure is unconventional? It's easy to miss if you never done an M96 engine before. If you didn't tell him how to set it up correctly, I would have.
04-13-2015, 11:32 AM
#99
Rennlist Member
"Damn, I really never should;d have replied to his post with any help at all! "
How does that saying go?..."The road to hell is paved with good intentions" (I think that's it, or something similar) If it's any consolation, at least you tried to do the right thing
How does that saying go?..."The road to hell is paved with good intentions" (I think that's it, or something similar) If it's any consolation, at least you tried to do the right thing
04-13-2015, 12:22 PM
#100
Burning Brakes
Sure its conventional, people have been half assing mechanical things as long as mechanical things have existed. It seldom works long term.
Now, you have to understand that I grew up doing all sorts of crazy things with engines, and it was't just Porsches... I was once across the border into Mexico in my old sand rail and got it a little too hot, wiping out a cylinder. I removed that cylinder and we made our way into a small town near the border where I found a VW shop. They didn't have a 92mm cylinder and piston, but they did have a 90.5mm. Both the 90.5 and 92mm cylinder use the same outside diameter cylinder, so the case and head cuts are the same.
I returned to the buggy and commenced to wash parts with beer and reassemble them. What else are a few Marines in the desert going to have with themother than beer? After reassembling it I drove another 45 miles back to the border without any problems other than a hellacious vibration. Once back to the auto hobby shop at El Toro I repaired it the proper way.
The difference with my story and this one, is I didn't do this with the intention of selling the car, and I did it because I had no choice and no way to get home otherwise.
Again, the proper method of addressing this would have been to disassemble the entire engine and apply the same "fix' to all the cylinders. The other bank is scoring too, it just hasn't shown symptoms yet. Disassembling the entire engine would also have allowed all the debris from the failed cylinders to be removed from the rest of the engine.
Again, who in this thread would appreciate buying this car unsuspectingly (at full price) and learning later that this was done? Thats what I thought.
Now, you have to understand that I grew up doing all sorts of crazy things with engines, and it was't just Porsches... I was once across the border into Mexico in my old sand rail and got it a little too hot, wiping out a cylinder. I removed that cylinder and we made our way into a small town near the border where I found a VW shop. They didn't have a 92mm cylinder and piston, but they did have a 90.5mm. Both the 90.5 and 92mm cylinder use the same outside diameter cylinder, so the case and head cuts are the same.
I returned to the buggy and commenced to wash parts with beer and reassemble them. What else are a few Marines in the desert going to have with themother than beer? After reassembling it I drove another 45 miles back to the border without any problems other than a hellacious vibration. Once back to the auto hobby shop at El Toro I repaired it the proper way.
The difference with my story and this one, is I didn't do this with the intention of selling the car, and I did it because I had no choice and no way to get home otherwise.
Again, the proper method of addressing this would have been to disassemble the entire engine and apply the same "fix' to all the cylinders. The other bank is scoring too, it just hasn't shown symptoms yet. Disassembling the entire engine would also have allowed all the debris from the failed cylinders to be removed from the rest of the engine.
Again, who in this thread would appreciate buying this car unsuspectingly (at full price) and learning later that this was done? Thats what I thought.
04-13-2015, 03:53 PM
#101
04-13-2015, 06:44 PM
#102
Am I right in saying lockasil is a cast cylinder and not a plating I think so?
Is it feasible to bore it out then re finish the surface and fit the oversized Pistons , obviously better doing both sides for balance!
The downside would be a thinner cylinder wall which would be more prone to ovality and d chunk ??
Is it feasible to bore it out then re finish the surface and fit the oversized Pistons , obviously better doing both sides for balance!
The downside would be a thinner cylinder wall which would be more prone to ovality and d chunk ??
04-14-2015, 11:04 AM
#103
Three Wheelin'
Other forums talk about the walls being right on the edge after the 3.4 engine, so boring them out would make issues worse as far as scoring - at least according to them.
I'm with you on the balance part though, only if that bank was bad. If it's good may as well save it.
What if it holds up and runs fine for many years to come? At this time we don't know if it will or will bot last. Everything is a guess. The only way you would.know an engine had work like this done is if something fails and it needs to be taken apart. There is nothing you can do to the PO even if you knew he did the work. You can bark and thretten but nothing will hold up in court.
That's just it, and it's not really going to cost someone that much more since those cylinders were shot anyway. Although getting into the car it would be nice to know about this fix...
04-14-2015, 12:27 PM
#104
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Sure its conventional, people have been half assing mechanical things as long as mechanical things have existed. It seldom works long term.
Now, you have to understand that I grew up doing all sorts of crazy things with engines, and it was't just Porsches... I was once across the border into Mexico in my old sand rail and got it a little too hot, wiping out a cylinder. I removed that cylinder and we made our way into a small town near the border where I found a VW shop. They didn't have a 92mm cylinder and piston, but they did have a 90.5mm. Both the 90.5 and 92mm cylinder use the same outside diameter cylinder, so the case and head cuts are the same.
I returned to the buggy and commenced to wash parts with beer and reassemble them. What else are a few Marines in the desert going to have with themother than beer? After reassembling it I drove another 45 miles back to the border without any problems other than a hellacious vibration. Once back to the auto hobby shop at El Toro I repaired it the proper way.
The difference with my story and this one, is I didn't do this with the intention of selling the car, and I did it because I had no choice and no way to get home otherwise.
Again, the proper method of addressing this would have been to disassemble the entire engine and apply the same "fix' to all the cylinders. The other bank is scoring too, it just hasn't shown symptoms yet. Disassembling the entire engine would also have allowed all the debris from the failed cylinders to be removed from the rest of the engine.
Again, who in this thread would appreciate buying this car unsuspectingly (at full price) and learning later that this was done? Thats what I thought.
Now, you have to understand that I grew up doing all sorts of crazy things with engines, and it was't just Porsches... I was once across the border into Mexico in my old sand rail and got it a little too hot, wiping out a cylinder. I removed that cylinder and we made our way into a small town near the border where I found a VW shop. They didn't have a 92mm cylinder and piston, but they did have a 90.5mm. Both the 90.5 and 92mm cylinder use the same outside diameter cylinder, so the case and head cuts are the same.
I returned to the buggy and commenced to wash parts with beer and reassemble them. What else are a few Marines in the desert going to have with themother than beer? After reassembling it I drove another 45 miles back to the border without any problems other than a hellacious vibration. Once back to the auto hobby shop at El Toro I repaired it the proper way.
The difference with my story and this one, is I didn't do this with the intention of selling the car, and I did it because I had no choice and no way to get home otherwise.
Again, the proper method of addressing this would have been to disassemble the entire engine and apply the same "fix' to all the cylinders. The other bank is scoring too, it just hasn't shown symptoms yet. Disassembling the entire engine would also have allowed all the debris from the failed cylinders to be removed from the rest of the engine.
Again, who in this thread would appreciate buying this car unsuspectingly (at full price) and learning later that this was done? Thats what I thought.
What was the weight of the piston that you put into that beetle engine? Was that the reason why is shook and not so much the slightly larger displacement?
04-14-2015, 12:29 PM
#105
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Other forums talk about the walls being right on the edge after the 3.4 engine, so boring them out would make issues worse as far as scoring - at least according to them.
I'm with you on the balance part though, only if that bank was bad. If it's good may as well save it.
That's just it, and it's not really going to cost someone that much more since those cylinders were shot anyway. Although getting into the car it would be nice to know about this fix...
I'm with you on the balance part though, only if that bank was bad. If it's good may as well save it.
That's just it, and it's not really going to cost someone that much more since those cylinders were shot anyway. Although getting into the car it would be nice to know about this fix...