MBMotorsports

You are wrong about steel sleeves, the way they are made there is no chance for d chunk again. D chunk happens when aluminum expands, so how can you get d chunk on a steel cylinder? It's logical when you make something out of one piece of material it's more durable and better quality than having something welded and adding nicasil to it.
All cars are made to break today, take a look at older Mercedes cars from 1980's, you will see what I mean. These cars ran for thousands of miles and engines were unbreakable. You will not see any nicasil inside of those. These cars had steel cylinders pressed into steel or aluminum cases, depending on the model. They only replaced it because after a million km they were used up, not broken! Today everything is supposed to be light, cheap and give results at the expense of durability. Compare a semi truck motor made with old school steel which runs a million miles before overhaul to a BMW motorcycle I race. My motorcycle engine has 1000cc's, 220hp and it's made from light aluminum, unfortunately it only lasts 5000 miles on the track, that's it. Steel cylinders have much better logetivity compared to nickies. Time will tell when you start getting more miles on those engines. Our sleeves have been tested in extreme conditions (like Moscow) in Europe for years.
FYI, maybe you don't realize this but in Europe most cars run on propane because gasoline is crazy expensive. As a result, all new engines in Panameras and Cayennes have scoring problems. Propane is dry and engines have no lubrication, even brand new cars have scoring damage. Audis, Mercedes too, there is no exception. When they fix them they install steel cylinders and these cars run forever.
Still waiting for your answer regarding your single row bearings. Do you think you should still recommend them to people knowing they cause expensive engine failures?

Charles Navarro

Yes, top of each main bearing. You install them before you put the bearings into the crankshaft cradle. They are closed at low oil pressure, but otherwise provide adequate lubrication. We've even deleted them with no ill effect with nikasil bores since nikasil (or any of it's equivalents like Millennium's NSC) is oleophilic.

p.vanderlinden

Yes, they are for piston cooling and sometimes aid in rod small end lube issues

MBMotorsports

So why do you think all car factories use nicasil in engines these days? It's because engine designers do not decide this, it's the corporation's economic division that makes these decisions. Project is supposed to cost as little as possible, run, and then break. It just doesn't last, that's the bottom line. They want it to be light, cheap and break later to stimulate their sales and the economy. If we want longevity from our engines we have to use different applications. Porsche has nothing to do with it, they don't care about having unbreakable engine. Steel sleeves would give them the same power if factory would want to make it that way. In my opinion, these motors don't have impressive hp, it adds up to about 90hp per liter. Steel cylinders would only make one big difference- would run longer and car sales would go down.

Flat6 Innovations

Martin,
You have your technologies confused.. Most manufacturers today do not use Nikasil, because it's an expensive plating process.

You have Nikasil confused with Lokasil, and Alusil, neither of which are a plating process.

MBMotorsports

You're right, these are even cheaper versions of what ln offers, but it doesn't change the fact that it has short durability. My bottom line was you won't see steel sleeves, it's all aluminum derivatives. It's about production cost and weight. Same like everything that surrounds us today, everything is made from crap and doesn't last.

dcdrechsel

The machined step would be a critical necessity .I believe Kolbenschmidt (? spelling) the block manufacturer provides detailed instructions for this in their sleeve repair advice .A simple press fit sleeve with no step is ugly.

Charles Navarro

Ok, we're not talking about propane or even E85. I've never done any development work with nikasil in these applications so I can't have an intelligent conversation there without doing proper research. Fuels are certainly an issue with all modern engines. Have a discussion about this with Lake Speed at Driven oils and you'll learn more than you ever would want to know about engine cleanliness as well as lubricity, which are all concerns today.

We're also not talking about OM617 diesel mercedes engines. There are plenty of engines with iron sleeves that are designed to run that way or will accept steel/iron sleeves just fine. You have even said it yourself - modern engines are all aluminum and light - the castings are marginal. We wouldn't be having this discussion if they were not. Like I said before, a perfect example of this is a 944 block. I'd bet a DFI 9A1 engine might take steel sleeves fine too - it's a much more substantial casting than that of the M96/M97. Comparing the M96 engine to any other engine to prove your point that steel sleeves work better than Nickies and will last longer again does not make any sense when you are comparing apples and oranges.

Typically steel/iron sleeves are a result of cost constraints. So is Lokasil (M96/M97). Again, had the block been Alusil with pistons with proper clearance and offsets, we would not be having this discussion. I'm not the only one stating this - look at what Capricorn in the UK does. They sleeve blocks exactly like I do here in the US - aluminum with nikasil or if budget is a concern, then they use steel, but aluminum nikasil is the top offering by them.

I have already addressed your issue with our single row IMS bearings and yes, everything we have everywhere in print and and on the web directs customers to choose our newest options, as does our sales staff.

Also, we are not the only ones with single row deep groove ball bearings - Tune RS offers theirs with the DOF and Pelican offers their kit that uses a single row bearing for both single row and double row intermediate shafts. There are even a few other options out there overseas (FVD) using similar bearing technology. The majority of single row bearings work just fine. Not until you hit the density of bearings we've achieved do you see a few instances of failures as would be expected. Again, it's a numbers game.

Our end user, in most cases a shop, has his choice of many options for bearings and we can't force them to choose. As long as others offer a single row bearing option, we will continue since there is a demand and regardless of what you think or feel, it is a proven product, and continue to find ways to improve said product, as anyone who uses our parts would have noticed as we've really stepped up our game and invested heavily in further improving our quality and raising our standards.

In fact, there even is demand for a roller bearing kit. I made and Jake tested a roller bearing retrofit kit years ago. We chose to spend the time and effort on the IMS Solution instead. However, we were asked by SSF about a roller bearing kit since their sales staff wants one. We're delivering it do them the end of this week for the single row IMS engines with proper, integral thrust control, based on all our development work to date.

If there is demand, we'll make them a dual row version, again since it's already done and in our back pocket, just like the dual row IMS Solution, which is also in production due to requests from those we sell to. What many do not know is that I have spent years of my life along with Jake to come up with ideas, make, and test solutions. Some didn't work as well as we would like but others have been a success.

PORCAR

I really don't care for online spats, but this thread has been incredibly educational.

Sneaky Pete

Here is a little info for you Martin...interesting stuff.

Charles Navarro

Took me a while, but I found it. Blown head gasket when d-chunk occurred on steel sleeved engine.

MBMotorsports

That's why it's not just pressed. If it was I wouldn't send it all the way to Poland. I have seen this kind of work here in US, later cylinders fall out. You can also see sample pics of this kind of work on LN website. Any local machine shop can press cylinders like that. The trick is to find the correct material, right piston rings, right technology and making sure the process takes time to get the right quality.

Charles Navarro

So are you saying we don't have the right material, right pistons rings, right technology, and correct processes? So thousands of engines, hundreds of shops, and one of the largest parts wholesalers must be wrong then and we should just close and send everyone to you, right?

Maybe your steel sleeving process is better than the others and you've figured out the right combo, but knocking ours down to promote yours on the forum is just in bad taste.

The Porsche world is small but there is no reason we can't co-exist peacefully. Again, none of this would have started had you not attacked my company, employees, products, and me personally.

Flat6 Innovations

Steel within aluminum.... Add some electrolysis and you have the perfect storm.

Anyone else out there familiar with dissimilar metal corrosion? Charles' photo shows it perfectly.

Sneaky Pete

You bet...I'm in construction and consultants and engineers have a field day with dissimilar materials all day.