Ahsai

Thanks guys. I can't really take the credit though as I'm not the original owner of this engine and didn't pay for the IMS retrofit, Cringely did. I'm just a curious George trying to learn everything about the M96 in general, the failure, and hopefully be able to diagnose the cause.

I think Cringely's sentiment and questions are fair given the circumstances and I feel sorry for him. I'm not Jake so I may not be able to conclude the source of failure at the end but that doesn't matter. I'll just report what I find in an objective manner as long as people are interested.

Thanks Jake for your help and I'm glad you're not upset or offended by my pics of the IMSB not in its best shape. I can imagine if someone did the same to my invention....It's easy to take photos and blame the bearing but given that all the cylinders are badly scored and pitted and who knows what else is damaged, it's way too early to draw any conclusion.

Regardless, even if it is the IMSB, I would say given the number of LN bearings deployed (10+ thousands?) a few failures is not significant especially given all the variables involved and non-verifiable possibilities like botched installation, old debris before the retrofit, etc.

Flat6 Innovations

I am never upset with reality. I hate to see something that we put so much into fail, but it is what it is and it happens when the planets align in a negative manner. I'm a realist.

That said, attitude is everything. I treat people and situations the way that they are presented. If someone is a dick to me, and acts like an entitled little punk, then I lose my mind. If someone is calm, collected and respectful, then they are rewarded for being that way. I treat them the way they treat me, and I'll do pretty much anything for them, even years later.

Few people today fit the latter set of characteristics, and thats what will drive me to an early retirement.

I go years at a time without any complaints or even slight conflicts, but if I have one it ruins my year. I've turned down two builds this week already, because I had red flags raised by the potential buyer. All it takes is just one sentence sometimes to tip me off. I've been doing this since the age of 13..... I have learned more about people than engines.

We'll figure this one out... Come take my enthusiast hands on rebuild class in December. I'll give you a discount ;-0

Ahsai

Thanks for the offer, Jake! I really admire your enthusiasm, skills, creativity and expertise.

Funny you mentioned the class as I had been in contact with Kaley and had tried to get on the July class but it was full (best time of the yr for me to travel). I'm considering the future classes but away from the family from Tues to Sun is quite difficult...I kicked myself that I missed your classes in Costa Mesa last yr.

I'll wait till I'm done tearing down the engine then I'll re-consider which classes to take. I'll take you up on your discount offer for sure

Flat6 Innovations

Sounds good. The December M96 102 class is the only enthusiast level class that I have for the rest of the year. We try hard to separate enthusiast from pros, because it cases conflicts. The pros don't want to learn the basics that the enthusiast must learn, and the enthusiasts don't want the pros to dominate the class.

The December class is at about 60% capacity now :-)

Ahsai

Sorry guys, back to the regular channel

I just want to point out a few things in this photo. You're looking at bank 1 cylinder #3, 2, 1 from left to right. This is bank 1 with the crank locked at Cyl #1 TDC overlap (as opposed to TDC compression) so the smaller half-moon at the cams' ends point toward the cam cover. The top is the intake cam and the bottom the exhaust cam. This is the position ready for IMSB retrofit and here's why.

The chain on the left is driven by the IMS sprocket directly. To prevent timing jump, one needs to ensure the cams are not rotating during the retrofit. The valve lifters are all strongly sprung so they tend to push out (toward you in the photo) and in some cam positions, they will rotate the cams. As you can see in this position, all the lifters are off the cams meaning the pointed ends of the cam lobes are all pointing away from the lifters so the valves are all closed* and the lifters won't be able to rotate the cams. The locking tool further locks the cams to prevent them from rotating during the IMSB retrofit. The tool goes in only at this specific cam/crank position. Also note the pointed ends of the cam are 120 degrees apart starting from cyl #1, followed by 2 and 3 when rotating clockwise viewed from the crank pulley end (the right side of the photo) because they all follow the same cycles just 120 degrees after the other.

*If you look very closely, the only exception is the exhaust valves (bottom) on cyl#1 (right most) are actually opened for about 1~2mm because the cam is not at its lowest point of its profile but still those lifters can't rotate the cam. Remember this is TDC cyl #1 overlap, not compression where the exhaust valves will be completely closed.

Bank 2 is essentially similar in this position so the cams won't be rotated by the lifters.

Hope the above explains why it's important to lock the bank 1 cams at this position when doing IMSB retrofit.

Charles Navarro

Sorry guys I have not chimed in sooner. Just as Jake has already said, I don't like to see failures let alone those involving one of our products. It's been hashed out on every forum at one time or another that some of our bearings have failed, but it's a very small fraction of the very large number sold and in service. And as with all mechanical things, there will always be failures - we're human and the parts are made by humans.

What I do know for sure, defective bearings go right away and don't last even 30 days or 1000 miles.

And that said, there have been so very few failures that we take every one seriously and try to investigate each and every failure so that we can get closer to understanding why they happen.

Again, not to repeat Jake, but in cases like this when everyone stays calm and objective, it's hard for us not to want to help and make this less painful. At the very minimum, I'd like the ims and all the bits that can be found and send them out for analysis. And there are all the training and processes that Jake and I have come up with that certainly we can make sizable consideration to reduce the cost of the repairs and ensure something like this (or any other failure), occur again.

Is there a serial number or a vin you can message me so I can see if we can track this installation down, if it was indeed registered? If you can't find the retrofit sticker anywhere, it's possible, however highly unlikely given the mileage, that the bearing was replaced after the original had already failed. Also, was the car fitted with a spin on oil filter adapter by chance?

Keep the pictures coming and information flowing. With every failure, however painful and costly, we all learn greatly.

Back to the discussion, to explain the date codes, we mark them with month/year identification so we know when each part was made. Bearings also now have laser etched dates in them as well, also so we know when they were made. It's common to have pieces that might have been made in different months.

Only the IMS Solution assemblies are blueprinted and are sold as matched assemblies, since we verify the end play in each kit prior to packaging and also why we use tamper evident tape on those boxes.

Gator996

Loving the direction this thread is taking.

Ahsai

Hi Charles,

Thanks for chiming in and offering your help! I think we're heading in a great direction now with two Porsche uber experts chiming in to help. Totally understand anything mechanical can fail and in this case it's even way too early to condemn the bearing.

I also thought if it was a botched installation, it should have failed pretty early and not after 25k+ miles but it's good to hear your confirmation. I'll PM you the VIN and the engine number. Automotive Excellence in San Diego did the retrofit. I can send in the IMS and bearing pieces once I tear down everything.The car does not have the spin on filter or any other aftermarket parts/mods except for a magnetic drain plug which was fit after 77.7k miles.

A quick recap of the history of the car and how it happened from the OP (Cringely). I bought the car from him as a roller.

"Photo of car is on the left, interior is clean, body nearly excellent due to partial respray after minor sideswipe, not much road rash since. Averages a bit above 24 mpg, 27+ hiway.
Bought car 9/26/2012 with 77676 miles from Automotive Excellence in San Diego
Artic silver, 18" alloy wheels w/colored crest caps, Xenon headlights, headlight washer, 12 speaker remote CD changer, floor mats, had seller install LN IMS bearings prior to delivery.
Work done since (in addition to scheduled maintenance): Replaced headlight switch; Replaced vacuum reservoir, change-over valve and air injection shut-off valve, Replaced bank 1 cam position sensor, left turn signal light wiring harness & bulbs.
Motor "died" 2 days ago (engine runs, but there are metal shards in oil/oil filter) at 100,400 miles. What I initially heard was sort of like rocks in hub caps. No noticeable loss of power. I thought it might be something like a water pump, so I drove it—cautiously—from my home in Carlsbad down to shop in SD. Got the bad news yesterday.
No idea what caused the failure. Car is presently at ind. repair shop in Kearny Mesa area of San Diego. I probably won’t get down there for add’l photos (if requested) until next Thursday (Jan 22). Feel free to PM me if you want location or make offer."

The engine seems original but it looks like the bank 1 cam cover has been off before (excessive sealant). Later I also learned some miles after the OP bought the car, small amount of metal (not sure if it's ferrous or not) was found in the filter during an oil change. A magnetic drain plug was then fitted. The first oil change after the drain plug did not reveal any metal in the filter. Then at 100k miles, the engine failed. The car has been well maintained and it's been using Total 5w-40 oil. I sent the used oil in to Blackstone and it came back with good 6.3 TBN with 34 aluminum 20 iron and 13 copper (the iron has been all picked up by the drain plug).

Let me know if you have any questions or you want me to check anything specific on the engine and I could do that too.

Appreciate your help!

Flat6 Innovations

The 34 aluminum value was your cylinders....... Literally

Ahsai

Oh yea, and I can't believe how bad the top of the cylinder walls are. It's not just scoring, there're tons of pitting. I need to take some pics from the borescope and post them here.

BTW, PM sent to you and Charles.

Imo000

Just pull the heads and then take the pics. The borescope pictures are always distorted

Ahsai

Updates:

Here are the photos of cylinder #5 showing horizontally. The left is the top of the cylinder and the right side is toward the piston top. You can see at the cylinder top, there's heavy pitting, then as you move down the bore, they turn into scoring and some pitting mid-stroke.

@Imre: yes, I'm going to pull the heads and strip the engine to the last bolt. These photos don't do the the borescope justice. The real-time video feed is super clear and has a MUCH higher resolution than these photos, which are like snapshots from a video.

Cuda911

I think the Doc in your avatar pic might get a better heartbeat if he put the stethoscope on the other side.

Ahsai

It makes no difference as the engine is dead

Rubik

Let's hope he didn't remove the engine from the front or all bets are off.