Gambled and Lost
10-15-2013, 08:36 PM
#121
Former Vendor
Not knowing the entire history of the car its hard to say anything conclusively.
Theres always the possibility that it was just a junk chain that had a soft roller. In that case nothing would have kept the roller from failing.
Theres always the possibility that it was just a junk chain that had a soft roller. In that case nothing would have kept the roller from failing.
10-15-2013, 09:12 PM
#123
Former Vendor
A very small amount. That's common with 4 valve engines. The wear is directly under the beam of the rod, where it's always at with high cylinder pressures or detonation.
10-15-2013, 11:32 PM
#124
Given the amount of internal, and not visible to me, damage - I am extremely glad that I selected Jake's IMS solution, as opposed to just swapping out the IMS bearing myself, or using a different shop. It could have really cost me, had Jake not caught it!
The fly in the ointment is I have only owned the car for a month and put about 2k miles on it. : (
The fly in the ointment is I have only owned the car for a month and put about 2k miles on it. : (
You will have the opportunity to enjoy a heck of lot more than 2k miles and not be burdened with the anxiety of the ultimate "what if".
10-16-2013, 12:22 AM
#125
Drifting
I get that right now it probably feels pretty crappy, glass half, or near empty - but I predict that after you have some more seat time you will see the glass is full.
You will have the opportunity to enjoy a heck of lot more than 2k miles and not be burdened with the anxiety of the ultimate "what if".
You will have the opportunity to enjoy a heck of lot more than 2k miles and not be burdened with the anxiety of the ultimate "what if".
10-16-2013, 01:35 AM
#126
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rhode Island
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I thank Jake for his service - I shipped my car when it came off the CPO warranty from Rhode Island to Georgia. I had the IMS service done, as well as other preventative items like the water pump and clutch (as well as other items) replaced while everything was out. The customer service was great, and I was happy with everything. I just wish I still had my car - had to sell due to a medical issue and loss of income 
10-16-2013, 10:08 AM
#127
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada
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Yep. "Gambled and won".
This is far from a "loss".
Here's the secondary, collateral damage the piece of timing chain created when it passed through the scavenge pump
And here's the rod bearing.. It was just worn..
And here's a whole bank of worn rod bearings, the knock sensors will also be replaced, because they obviously weren't effective.
And the anti-wear coating of this piston is also compromised, this would have led to a failed cylinder in the future
And that piston had some companions, incidentally they were the same pistons that had the worn rod bearings. Detonation anyone?
This is far from a "loss".
Here's the secondary, collateral damage the piece of timing chain created when it passed through the scavenge pump
And here's the rod bearing.. It was just worn..
And here's a whole bank of worn rod bearings, the knock sensors will also be replaced, because they obviously weren't effective.
And the anti-wear coating of this piston is also compromised, this would have led to a failed cylinder in the future
And that piston had some companions, incidentally they were the same pistons that had the worn rod bearings. Detonation anyone?
While I agree that detonation can cause the bearing wear, so can a lot of other possible problems.
Curious how you know the knock sensors are not working? They are pretty simple devices. Doesn't the ECM store knock incidents? How do you test knock sensors?
My guess is the oil ran low (maybe more than once) that would also cause the damage you see on the skirts. And certainly would affect the chain.
150k for a car is crazy too. But yet they still sell lots of them.......
10-16-2013, 10:25 AM
#128
Former Vendor
The only scavenge pumps that have wire mesh are very late that incorporate the power brake booster vacuum pump into them. Scavenge pumps pre 2005 do not have this.
The chunk of the pump that's damaged has an imprint of the timing chain roller that we found in the sump that matches perfectly. I had said from the beginning that I expected to find this, but I expected the pump to be broken. Typically when this happens the debris locks the pump solid and gives a symptom, in this case that did not occur and the piece just returned to the sump through the secondary oil delivery channels and through the swirl pots and into the sump. Now you see why we pull swirl pots in every pre- qualification inspection to look for debris inside them too. Some debris will stay inside them and not be evident in the sump.
As for the wear on the rod bearings:
We were going to change out the bearings anyway, because we were already there. I am now concerned more with ensuring what led to this is remedied more than anything else. That means new knock sensors at minimum.
Perhaps someone down the line refused to use premium grade fuel?
All that matters is the issue was discovered, was properly diagnosed and the owner did the right thing. We were then able to find others issues looming and remedy those for no additional costs.
We will be measuring the big end and small end sizing of the connecting rod housing bores to ensure they have not been impacted by detonation as well. If they were, we will change out the rods.
The chunk of the pump that's damaged has an imprint of the timing chain roller that we found in the sump that matches perfectly. I had said from the beginning that I expected to find this, but I expected the pump to be broken. Typically when this happens the debris locks the pump solid and gives a symptom, in this case that did not occur and the piece just returned to the sump through the secondary oil delivery channels and through the swirl pots and into the sump. Now you see why we pull swirl pots in every pre- qualification inspection to look for debris inside them too. Some debris will stay inside them and not be evident in the sump.
As for the wear on the rod bearings:
We were going to change out the bearings anyway, because we were already there. I am now concerned more with ensuring what led to this is remedied more than anything else. That means new knock sensors at minimum.
Perhaps someone down the line refused to use premium grade fuel?
All that matters is the issue was discovered, was properly diagnosed and the owner did the right thing. We were then able to find others issues looming and remedy those for no additional costs.
We will be measuring the big end and small end sizing of the connecting rod housing bores to ensure they have not been impacted by detonation as well. If they were, we will change out the rods.
10-16-2013, 11:37 AM
#130
Former Vendor
The damage was limited to one portion of the pump, so that screams that the debris went in and out fast and didn't make it through a full cycle of the pump. If it had, the pump would have seized for sure.
10-16-2013, 01:22 PM
#131
Drifting
The 991 4S Cab in the new Porsche dealership had a price tag of $160K+ on it, and that's BEFORE the 13% tax we pay around here, bringing the total to over $180K out the door.
10-16-2013, 01:23 PM
#132
Drifting
This is a rare instance where the debris was ingested at the very edge of the vane and it pushed to one side more than the center of the vane. This found the debris making its way into the aluminum housing and then getting ejected from the pump housing and into the flow of secondary oil, back to the swirl pots.
The damage was limited to one portion of the pump, so that screams that the debris went in and out fast and didn't make it through a full cycle of the pump. If it had, the pump would have seized for sure.
The damage was limited to one portion of the pump, so that screams that the debris went in and out fast and didn't make it through a full cycle of the pump. If it had, the pump would have seized for sure.
10-16-2013, 01:46 PM
#133
Former Vendor
Thats crazy... I love it. :-)
