Just finished IMS Guardian Install!
11-21-2011, 10:45 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Shawsheen River Basin
Posts: 1,697
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-15-2011, 06:06 PM
#50
Advanced
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
12-16-2011, 01:14 AM
#51
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The IMSG is under $400 and the install shouldn't take more than a couple of hours. It's a straight forward fix that could be undertaken by just about anyone.
An IMSB retrofit kit is $619 + $189 for the tool kit and is not by any stretch of the imagination a quick fix (especially for the inexperienced). You need the right tools and experience to do the job and perhaps, most importantly for the inexperienced and experienced alike, you need the time. As you say later in your post, you and your brother are extremely experienced mechanics. What makes you think for a second that most IMSG buyers have similar backgrounds? Given that most won't undertake the task for themselves it often becomes a $2K repair...5x that of that the IMSG and then you've replaced your lifetime bearing with a 50K mile bearing.
I'll see that and raise you what's the mass hysteria about the IMSB in general?
There's a lot of online fear mongering around the IMSB that fuels people's "hysteria" around failure. I'm not saying the IMS bearings don't fail or that the result isn't catastrophic if they do. It's a known risk and issue. Does it get blown out of proportion? IMHO, yes, although plenty of people will disagree. Personally, I feel like the fact that it's a risk with a significant repair cost, makes the ease and simplicity of the IMSG a cheap no-brainer.
Could I replace the clutch in my 996? Sure. Will I? Hell no. I can count the number of times I've replaced a clutch on a car on one hand and I am still not going to pull apart the engine/transmission on my 996. Unlike you, I didn't "go to state" in mechanics competitions and what takes you an hour will take me a significant multiplier in time in order to ensure that I'm "doing it right." Unfortunately, that's time that I just don't have.
I, too, am all for "fix it right, fix it once" but you've obviously bought into the claim that the "50K mile" LNE bearing is superior to the "lifetime of the engine" bearing engineered by Porsche just because there's a small failure rate. Who says the LNE bearing is definitely the right fix?
The beauty of the IMSG is that it allows you to fix your IMSB if or when, in fact, it's going to fail. What if you're in the 95%+ [I don't think anyone has suggested more than a 5% failure rate] of owners with M96 engines in which the IMSB will last for the life of the engine? In that case, if you just go the LNE route, then you've replaced a lifetime bearing with one that is engineered to be replaced within 50K miles. Since my C4S has about 25K miles on it and I don't plan on getting rid of it any time soon, that means I'm in for, at least, two IMSB retrofits. NOW, if I was going in and doing a clutch replacement then MAYBE I would consider doing it. It would certainly be a much different consideration since I'd already have the car apart but my clutch is brand new and so is my RMS seal.
I don't criticize people who replace their bearings, buy Guardians or decide to live with their M96 "as-is" without any protection. Whatever floats your boat. People have different reasons for their decisions. If I'm going to criticize anyone it would be those who seem to enjoy perpetuating the fear of failure.
-Eric
An IMSB retrofit kit is $619 + $189 for the tool kit and is not by any stretch of the imagination a quick fix (especially for the inexperienced). You need the right tools and experience to do the job and perhaps, most importantly for the inexperienced and experienced alike, you need the time. As you say later in your post, you and your brother are extremely experienced mechanics. What makes you think for a second that most IMSG buyers have similar backgrounds? Given that most won't undertake the task for themselves it often becomes a $2K repair...5x that of that the IMSG and then you've replaced your lifetime bearing with a 50K mile bearing.
I'll see that and raise you what's the mass hysteria about the IMSB in general?
There's a lot of online fear mongering around the IMSB that fuels people's "hysteria" around failure. I'm not saying the IMS bearings don't fail or that the result isn't catastrophic if they do. It's a known risk and issue. Does it get blown out of proportion? IMHO, yes, although plenty of people will disagree. Personally, I feel like the fact that it's a risk with a significant repair cost, makes the ease and simplicity of the IMSG a cheap no-brainer.
Could I replace the clutch in my 996? Sure. Will I? Hell no. I can count the number of times I've replaced a clutch on a car on one hand and I am still not going to pull apart the engine/transmission on my 996. Unlike you, I didn't "go to state" in mechanics competitions and what takes you an hour will take me a significant multiplier in time in order to ensure that I'm "doing it right." Unfortunately, that's time that I just don't have.
I, too, am all for "fix it right, fix it once" but you've obviously bought into the claim that the "50K mile" LNE bearing is superior to the "lifetime of the engine" bearing engineered by Porsche just because there's a small failure rate. Who says the LNE bearing is definitely the right fix?
The beauty of the IMSG is that it allows you to fix your IMSB if or when, in fact, it's going to fail. What if you're in the 95%+ [I don't think anyone has suggested more than a 5% failure rate] of owners with M96 engines in which the IMSB will last for the life of the engine? In that case, if you just go the LNE route, then you've replaced a lifetime bearing with one that is engineered to be replaced within 50K miles. Since my C4S has about 25K miles on it and I don't plan on getting rid of it any time soon, that means I'm in for, at least, two IMSB retrofits. NOW, if I was going in and doing a clutch replacement then MAYBE I would consider doing it. It would certainly be a much different consideration since I'd already have the car apart but my clutch is brand new and so is my RMS seal.
I don't criticize people who replace their bearings, buy Guardians or decide to live with their M96 "as-is" without any protection. Whatever floats your boat. People have different reasons for their decisions. If I'm going to criticize anyone it would be those who seem to enjoy perpetuating the fear of failure.
-Eric
12-16-2011, 07:40 AM
#52
Am I reading this right? The ceramic IMS bearing provided by LN is only rated for 50K miles? And the Porsche one was supposed to last for the life of the car, but some have not. I thought I read that the LN bearing is 5X stronger than the stock bearing. Wouldn't that make it last longer?
12-16-2011, 07:43 AM
#53
12-16-2011, 04:08 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
I don't know who said "forever" (hopefully I didn't say so in an old post! lol). Nobody expects an engine or its components to last forever but the stock Porsche bearing was certainly engineered and intended to last the life of the engine. As for serviceability, Porsche didn't create tools to service the stock bearing. The only reason it can "serviced" is because the engineers at LNE developed the tools and replacement bearing to allow technicians to replace it.
-Eric
-Eric
12-30-2011, 11:34 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Sorry to bring this thread back to topic.
Finally installed my IMSG this week. Installation was fairly easy. I went through the video a number of times. I like the fact that it is available online as well (my DVD times out on "pause mode", whereas utube doesn't. When I had to come back to review where I was at, I was spending too much time getting back to section I was on.)
- One suggestion here is to divide the video into chapters for easy reference from the main menu. As it is, there are only two sections.
Being somewhat new with the mechanical side of things, it was good to find the jack points discussions on Rennlist.
I found it easier to remove the driver's side rear wheel when fishing the wire from inside to outside.
Regarding fishing the wire: This was somewhat confusing in the video. I couldn't tell where in the world they were fishing the wire. May consider spending a bit more time on this, as it's kind of a blurr in the video. Newbie installers might get stuck at this point, as I did. I don't know, maybe its just me...
The other section I got a little stuck on was the wire from the defroster switch. It took me a while to realize there were two clamps holding the wire in: One on the side and one on the top. Once I opened the one on the top, all was good.
Otherwise, an easy install.
I do agree, the alarm is kind of low on test. If I'm driving with top down, stereo ablazin and the Fister D's roaring, it will be difficult to hear the low alarm. Would be nice to have a loud alarm to alert driver.
After all said and done, it was nice to see the amber light come on. I do feel a bit more at ease having it in place.
Yes, it is only a temporal solution. I plan on replacing the IMSB (or imSOB). The local Porsche dealership has done a couple of IMSB replacements recently and quoted me a price of $2400 for the IMSB & RMS work. The tech I spoke to wasn't aware that the LNE solution wasn't permanent (only the 50K). He made a mental note of that.
That's all for now.
Finally installed my IMSG this week. Installation was fairly easy. I went through the video a number of times. I like the fact that it is available online as well (my DVD times out on "pause mode", whereas utube doesn't. When I had to come back to review where I was at, I was spending too much time getting back to section I was on.)
- One suggestion here is to divide the video into chapters for easy reference from the main menu. As it is, there are only two sections.
Being somewhat new with the mechanical side of things, it was good to find the jack points discussions on Rennlist.
I found it easier to remove the driver's side rear wheel when fishing the wire from inside to outside.
Regarding fishing the wire: This was somewhat confusing in the video. I couldn't tell where in the world they were fishing the wire. May consider spending a bit more time on this, as it's kind of a blurr in the video. Newbie installers might get stuck at this point, as I did. I don't know, maybe its just me...
The other section I got a little stuck on was the wire from the defroster switch. It took me a while to realize there were two clamps holding the wire in: One on the side and one on the top. Once I opened the one on the top, all was good.
Otherwise, an easy install.
I do agree, the alarm is kind of low on test. If I'm driving with top down, stereo ablazin and the Fister D's roaring, it will be difficult to hear the low alarm. Would be nice to have a loud alarm to alert driver.
After all said and done, it was nice to see the amber light come on. I do feel a bit more at ease having it in place.
Yes, it is only a temporal solution. I plan on replacing the IMSB (or imSOB). The local Porsche dealership has done a couple of IMSB replacements recently and quoted me a price of $2400 for the IMSB & RMS work. The tech I spoke to wasn't aware that the LNE solution wasn't permanent (only the 50K). He made a mental note of that.
That's all for now.
12-30-2011, 03:53 PM
#58
Former Vendor
Finally installed my IMSG this week. Installation was fairly easy. I went through the video a number of times. I like the fact that it is available online as well (my DVD times out on "pause mode", whereas utube doesn't.
The video being online helps in a lot of ways, some guys even watch it on their phone while doing the install.
- One suggestion here is to divide the video into chapters for easy reference from the main menu. As it is, there are only two sections.
Being somewhat new with the mechanical side of things, it was good to find the jack points discussions on Rennlist.
I found it easier to remove the driver's side rear wheel when fishing the wire from inside to outside.
Otherwise, an easy install.
I found it easier to remove the driver's side rear wheel when fishing the wire from inside to outside.
Otherwise, an easy install.
I do agree, the alarm is kind of low on test. If I'm driving with top down, stereo ablazin and the Fister D's roaring, it will be difficult to hear the low alarm. Would be nice to have a loud alarm to alert driver.
After all said and done, it was nice to see the amber light come on. I do feel a bit more at ease having it in place.
Yes, it is only a temporal solution. I plan on replacing the IMSB (or imSOB). The local Porsche dealership has done a couple of IMSB replacements recently and quoted me a price of $2400 for the IMSB & RMS work. The tech I spoke to wasn't aware that the LNE solution wasn't permanent (only the 50K). He made a mental note of that.
Glad your experience was good.. The feedback we have gotten has been 95% positive and any deficiencies have been addressed. The IMSG saved it's first engine in the fleet on December 10th.. That was a good day. One engine saved was worth all the work we put into the development.
12-30-2011, 10:06 PM
#59
Three Wheelin'
This would be very cool to hook up to an aftermarket head unit's mute wire (not sure if that requires ground though?)... which would mute the music and all you would hear is the buzzer! Awesome stuff.
01-02-2012, 09:14 PM
#60
Racer
Thread Starter
Jake!
The new ones have an output now!!!? I was thinking the same thing about the loudness and how I will never hear it since I am ALWAYS blasting my stereo hahaha! How much to change mine to output?
The new ones have an output now!!!? I was thinking the same thing about the loudness and how I will never hear it since I am ALWAYS blasting my stereo hahaha! How much to change mine to output?