So I finally got to drive a 360 Modena yesterday
02-20-2008, 06:45 PM
#61
I drove this car about 6 or 7 years ago, owner had too much to drink otherwise I doubt I would have ever had the chance, actually another five minutes and it would have been stuck in parking garage overnight. I noticed on the parking garage wall there was a sign that said they charged an extra 20% for Bentley, Ferrari and Porsche parking! 
The 360 was the real deal. made the hair on my neck stand up. The pinnacle of the sprint racing car. But completely impractical, I was scared to drive the car.. a mishap could put me in debt for life!
And the four year waiting list for Ferrari doesn't help matters. Amazing to think that you could have the caysh to plunk down and they'll tell you "we'll call you in 2010-2011 or you can pay me an extra $40K in my back pocket here and maybe we can find one in six months". Too many dudes with too much moolah and not enough Ferrari.
The opposite situation of Porsches, everyone has one that can afford one.
Porsches are meant to be driven everyday and pushed to their limits on track days and autocross.
Ferraris are meant to be waxed and driven slowly past a trendy outdoor cafe full of chicks with fake ***** and guys with hair plugs.
P.s.
CaymanS had nearly the same effect the first time I drove one, A REAL drive...something I could never do in a 355/360/430/550...CaymanS is a near perfect car with ugly headlights.
The 360 was the real deal. made the hair on my neck stand up. The pinnacle of the sprint racing car. But completely impractical, I was scared to drive the car.. a mishap could put me in debt for life!
And the four year waiting list for Ferrari doesn't help matters. Amazing to think that you could have the caysh to plunk down and they'll tell you "we'll call you in 2010-2011 or you can pay me an extra $40K in my back pocket here and maybe we can find one in six months". Too many dudes with too much moolah and not enough Ferrari.
The opposite situation of Porsches, everyone has one that can afford one.
Porsches are meant to be driven everyday and pushed to their limits on track days and autocross.
Ferraris are meant to be waxed and driven slowly past a trendy outdoor cafe full of chicks with fake ***** and guys with hair plugs.
P.s.
CaymanS had nearly the same effect the first time I drove one, A REAL drive...something I could never do in a 355/360/430/550...CaymanS is a near perfect car with ugly headlights.
02-20-2008, 06:56 PM
#62
Banned
Thread Starter
perfectlap, too funny man. I mean all it took was just starting up the car, engaging the clutch, turning the wheel and slowly getting out of a parallel parking situation onto the street to understand what's up.
The gauges, the yellow prancing horse steering wheel stamp in the middle, the metal gated shift, the seating position... i mean game over. i'm behind the wheels of a thoroughbred.
I enjoy outdoor cafes full of chicks, I like my hair, and I like track days just am honest with myself to understand that I'm rarely going to drive any of my cars on one again but do enjoy a few drives now and then with friends in the back-backroads.
The flywheel/engine's reciprocating mass is so lite... braa... braaa braa in quick succession. not quite at CGT speeds, but darn well good enough to put a smile on my face.
The gauges, the yellow prancing horse steering wheel stamp in the middle, the metal gated shift, the seating position... i mean game over. i'm behind the wheels of a thoroughbred.
I enjoy outdoor cafes full of chicks, I like my hair, and I like track days just am honest with myself to understand that I'm rarely going to drive any of my cars on one again but do enjoy a few drives now and then with friends in the back-backroads.
The flywheel/engine's reciprocating mass is so lite... braa... braaa braa in quick succession. not quite at CGT speeds, but darn well good enough to put a smile on my face.
02-20-2008, 06:56 PM
#63
Banned
Thread Starter
02-20-2008, 08:35 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
Grasshopper...seems like you take very good care of your current P car. Frequent car wash, wax, windex, leather clean/moisturise, vacum etc. Drive it in nice sunny weather, no rain, worry about scratched, stone chips, bird ****, finger prints, dings and dents etc.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE STRESS YOU WILL HAVE IF YOU DROVE A F-CAR. You won't have time to actually enjoy it.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE STRESS YOU WILL HAVE IF YOU DROVE A F-CAR. You won't have time to actually enjoy it.
02-20-2008, 10:55 PM
#67
Banned
Thread Starter
Grasshopper...seems like you take very good care of your current P car. Frequent car wash, wax, windex, leather clean/moisturise, vacum etc. Drive it in nice sunny weather, no rain, worry about scratched, stone chips, bird ****, finger prints, dings and dents etc.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE STRESS YOU WILL HAVE IF YOU DROVE A F-CAR. You won't have time to actually enjoy it.
CAN YOU IMAGINE THE STRESS YOU WILL HAVE IF YOU DROVE A F-CAR. You won't have time to actually enjoy it.
you know me well but i'm trying to get better and i've made progress sensei
02-21-2008, 12:37 AM
#68
Drifting
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Another Ex pat Brit in SoCal
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So from my experience with the 360...
Awesome track car - sucks on the street.
Paddle shift clutch on many early models fails repeatably when sitting it traffic getting hot.
You simply can't see traffic around and beside you, visibility was V poor.
You can't leave it parked anywhere without ****!ng a brick - I've seen 'tourists' leaning and even climbing on parked 360s for a picture!
You'll have to repeatedly bend over and take it from the rear for servicing.
So probably perfect for Ben - you can roll with the Prancing Horse and believe you're the man.
Awesome track car - sucks on the street.
Paddle shift clutch on many early models fails repeatably when sitting it traffic getting hot.
You simply can't see traffic around and beside you, visibility was V poor.
You can't leave it parked anywhere without ****!ng a brick - I've seen 'tourists' leaning and even climbing on parked 360s for a picture!
You'll have to repeatedly bend over and take it from the rear for servicing.
So probably perfect for Ben - you can roll with the Prancing Horse and believe you're the man.
02-21-2008, 12:48 AM
#70
no wonder you didn't like the Ferrari, those Italian dudes put the steering wheel on the WRONG SIDE OF THE CAR...How the hell do you expect to parallel park your F-Car when your sitting next to curb??
That's like tapping your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time...
That's like tapping your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time...
02-21-2008, 12:53 AM
#71
Drifting
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Another Ex pat Brit in SoCal
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no wonder you didn't like the Ferrari, those Italian dudes put the steering wheel on the WRONG SIDE OF THE CAR...How the hell do you expect to parallel park your F-Car when your sitting next to curb??
That's like tapping your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time...
That's like tapping your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time...
02-21-2008, 06:28 AM
#73
Three Wheelin'
I originally never wanted a 911. It was in fact my search for an older Ferrari that got me to drive a 911 for the first time. I always wanted a 308 GTSi QV or 328 GTS. I kept looking and driving them. They were wonderful cars to look at and hear, just not the best to drive. I looked and drove 7 or 8 of them, including a Norwood Turbo. There were just certain I didn't.
The driving position is simply terrible. You have a flat profile steering wheel, with very reclined seats (even at the lowest recline setting) that are unsupportive and flat. Your legs are skewed way to the right to make room for the wheel arches. The gas pedal is actually in the centerline of the car. Teh shifters come in 2 versions: so loose they wobble a couple of inches in every gate or so tight they are a bicep machine to move. The clutch has no feel and just engages someplace in the travel. They brakes feel unassisted with a heavy pedal. The steering was heavy and choppy at anything below 35 mph. In fact, it felt just like an old fiero (for those who remember them). Above 35 the steering became perfectly smooth. Above 70, the steering lightened up substantually. The engines on the other hand are wonderful, especially the 328. It pulls from 1000 rpms with good torque all the way to 7700 rpms. Other than the engine, I hated the cars when I drove them.
When I would drive them I would also voice my concerns with the dealer and they told me on multiple occassions to look at a 911. I went out and drove an 911 S/C and bought one within a month. What sold me on my first 911 was not looks or prestige, it was a great driving position with no offset pedals and a vertical steering wheel, brakes that were easy to modulate and powerful, a clutch that was easy to feel (initially strange due to the floor pivot) and steering that even at 5 mph you could not tell it was not power assisted. In the end, what mattered most to me was how the car felt behind the wheel and not how it looked on the outside. It is kind of funny that it was actually a Ferrari dealer that got me to drive and hence buy a 911.
Since buying my S/C, I have driven 348s, F355s and a 512 TR. Each has gotten better. Both the V8 cars still have driving position issues. The front wheel well forces your legs to the center. The steering wheel position was finally fixed with the F355. The 348 in some ways went backwards: the engine didn't pull as well down low as the 328 and the rear suspension felt very nervous. The F355 was almost liveable. I decided against a 355 when I chose to go to a 996 Carrera instead because it was a much more liveable car.
One significant surprise to me was the TR. Despite what appears to be a big intrusion of the front wheel arches, was actually none when you got settled in the car. Remember to duck when you get in as the roof is very low. A TR is so wide that after going over the wide doorsills, you find the pedals position perfectly directly in front of you. The steering wheel is vertical like a 911. The shifter and the steering are still heavy, but much smoother than the older V8 Ferraris. The clutch takeup is heavy, but smooth and easy to feel. The brakes are almost soft and feel a lot like a 993. The engine is a marvel with a perfectly smooth idle, a tremendouse flat torque off idle and the ability to rev to 7K. Visibility was also surprisingly very good. It is was not for the cost of maintenance and rapair on a TR (it is the highest of any Ferrari), I would probably own one today. I will probably own one sometime as an extra car.
I have been in a F360, but never driven one. I haven't considered one until recently, as it is now in my price range. From sitting in it, they have finally fixed the driving position. I just don't know if I could go to one knowing it won't even perform as well as a 997 Carrera S. Remember that even an F360CS can't outperform a 996 GT3.
The driving position is simply terrible. You have a flat profile steering wheel, with very reclined seats (even at the lowest recline setting) that are unsupportive and flat. Your legs are skewed way to the right to make room for the wheel arches. The gas pedal is actually in the centerline of the car. Teh shifters come in 2 versions: so loose they wobble a couple of inches in every gate or so tight they are a bicep machine to move. The clutch has no feel and just engages someplace in the travel. They brakes feel unassisted with a heavy pedal. The steering was heavy and choppy at anything below 35 mph. In fact, it felt just like an old fiero (for those who remember them). Above 35 the steering became perfectly smooth. Above 70, the steering lightened up substantually. The engines on the other hand are wonderful, especially the 328. It pulls from 1000 rpms with good torque all the way to 7700 rpms. Other than the engine, I hated the cars when I drove them.
When I would drive them I would also voice my concerns with the dealer and they told me on multiple occassions to look at a 911. I went out and drove an 911 S/C and bought one within a month. What sold me on my first 911 was not looks or prestige, it was a great driving position with no offset pedals and a vertical steering wheel, brakes that were easy to modulate and powerful, a clutch that was easy to feel (initially strange due to the floor pivot) and steering that even at 5 mph you could not tell it was not power assisted. In the end, what mattered most to me was how the car felt behind the wheel and not how it looked on the outside. It is kind of funny that it was actually a Ferrari dealer that got me to drive and hence buy a 911.
Since buying my S/C, I have driven 348s, F355s and a 512 TR. Each has gotten better. Both the V8 cars still have driving position issues. The front wheel well forces your legs to the center. The steering wheel position was finally fixed with the F355. The 348 in some ways went backwards: the engine didn't pull as well down low as the 328 and the rear suspension felt very nervous. The F355 was almost liveable. I decided against a 355 when I chose to go to a 996 Carrera instead because it was a much more liveable car.
One significant surprise to me was the TR. Despite what appears to be a big intrusion of the front wheel arches, was actually none when you got settled in the car. Remember to duck when you get in as the roof is very low. A TR is so wide that after going over the wide doorsills, you find the pedals position perfectly directly in front of you. The steering wheel is vertical like a 911. The shifter and the steering are still heavy, but much smoother than the older V8 Ferraris. The clutch takeup is heavy, but smooth and easy to feel. The brakes are almost soft and feel a lot like a 993. The engine is a marvel with a perfectly smooth idle, a tremendouse flat torque off idle and the ability to rev to 7K. Visibility was also surprisingly very good. It is was not for the cost of maintenance and rapair on a TR (it is the highest of any Ferrari), I would probably own one today. I will probably own one sometime as an extra car.
I have been in a F360, but never driven one. I haven't considered one until recently, as it is now in my price range. From sitting in it, they have finally fixed the driving position. I just don't know if I could go to one knowing it won't even perform as well as a 997 Carrera S. Remember that even an F360CS can't outperform a 996 GT3.
in terms of this v8 conversation, Ben by all means buy a 360 or a 430 (drop in my opinion, hold value better), but IMHO don't do it if it means selling your daily driver or levering up. just don't put too many miles on 'em and you'll lose very very little aside from taxes of course (unless in Delaware). rack up mileage and you'll be bleeding on depreciation AND maintenance. If I didn't have employees or investors, you'd better believe I'd keep a 430 somewhere for sunny days. I might still break down and do it with all the real estate people in cali going broke. theres deals out there! (am I a prisoner to my fear of depreciation?)
incidentally for you sunset folks i was at katana the other day and a very very short guy was parked right in front of me when I came out. black f430 spider with what looked like a big foam booster seat on the driver's side. I guess yellow pages don't fit in new ferraris!
