silotwo

UFO - sorry to hear about this - truly catastrophic in many ways IMO. Just curious, what was your original buy price?

I am sincerely sorry to hear of your experience and really can understand why you want might to drop your '01 as a potential boat anchor and never do anything but sneer at a P-car in the future. I hope you find a way out and suffer the minimum financial loss possible. On the bright side, you may have learned that for you, a P-car simply doesn't satisfy your desire. I don't think you should have to mod a car to death to get it to be what you want.

As to the "slow" issue, I run into quite a few guys who ask me to "race" and start quoting 1/4 mile ET and mph at the line. I usually just stare in disbelief. Decades ago as I kid I was into 1/4 mile drag racing and built some pretty strong cars. But I do clearly remember that as impressively fast as my cars were, they were really only good for that straight line 1/4 mile. The son of a friend of mine went for a ride in my 996, he runs a mustang, and at the end he said, "not bad for a daily driver I guess, but my Mustang would stomp all over you". His father heard the comment and saved my day. I'll leave out the expletives, but basically he told his son that if he really wanted to "race" my 996 he should race me to another town and he was sure that I would be at the diner paying the check before his kid arrived". My point is that purpose and perception are relative. I knew "why" I desired to own another Porsche, and it certainly wasn't to smoke tires off the line. It is my perception that my 996 delivers precisely to my expactations, and it actually more than serves what was my intended purpose. Again, that's based on me, not on what someone else might be expecting. Likewise, the kid I mention does have a pretty quick mustang and that was his intention. Trying to "rate" value between the two cars just makes no sense to me.

And after reading what you are going through, I am no longer second guessing my decision to pay the premium I did for my '04 CPO.

Best of luck to you.

RF5BPilot

I have always thought of the standard, C2, normally aspirated 911 as a Stradivarius. It sounds so good, does so many things well, has good fuel economy and mine have always been extremely reliable. I started driving at about 14yrs old in a VW bug; later fell in love with my Dad's 356 spending untold hours on winding back roads in Ohio. Engines in the back just feel right to me.

I can imagine a self-taught fiddle player in a country rock band in the Ozarks might have little respect for a Strad when what he wants is a tough brick with electronic pickups. At some level, I am disappointed when I hear people talking about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times in Porsches. I think they've missed the point. It's not bad....just a path where you are gaining status/enjoyment by comparing yourself with others. A lot of rocks & cacti on that path.

Choose the right tool for the job. If you want a pocket rocket--get a rice burner on NOx--they just have no soul. Big metal is also easy to find--just plan on 8-13mpg. But the music that comes from the Porsche, the feel and balance that it has over back roads....is just wonderful. If you don't value that, then you're ranting because your Ford won't float....and you Really wanted to take your friends water skiing.

I wouldn't wish engine trouble on anyone...but it's also impossible to know how the car was treated before you got it...and we don't even know how you've treated it since you owned it. Hope you find a reasonable solution. But your posts seem odd in that you said that before you bought it, you didn't think Porsches were very fast nor did they corner all that well....but you got it anyway. With sound reasoning like that, I don't know what to make of anything you say.

UFO007

I paid $28,900 for the car. I'm going to head down to the Porsche dealership tomorrow and see what they have on the lot and see if we can't come to some arrangement. The P car was supposed to be a second car for me but I'm willing to trade the Lancer in also and have it as my only car.

UFO007

I've been driving since 14 too where my Dad would let me drive his car around the neighbourhood. At a younger age he used to drive and let me steer and do gears too. I started driving in a stick and that's pretty much all I've ever drove. I used to take my Fiesta XR2 and run the country lanes behind Altrincham and Wilmslow every chance I could get. I'd even drive to Wales & Anglesea just so I could stretch the legs on the twisty back roads. As a teenager I was also a pretty good go-kart racer with quite a few competitive wins under my belt. My parents paid for me to go to Jonathon Palmer's racing school. I'm 37 years old now and have driven at least 100 different cars. So, you can sit there in your armchair and claim that I broke the car, but the fact is I did nothing. Did I drive it like it is supposed to be driven? Of course. I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I drove at less than 4K RPMs the entire time I owned it, but I'm also not some kid who flogged it while bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear and downshifting into 2nd instead of 4th. I'm sure after all that you all must think I'm trying to portray myself as a modern age Ayrton Senna. I'm not. Far from it in fact. I'm an average driver and get humbled every time I go to the track by someone in a lesser car who just drives the crap out of it. But to suggest I'm some 16 year old kid with no concept of how to drive is far from the truth.

I've been to the drag strip about 10 times in my entire life. If you read my post you should have understood why I sold my 11 second Mustang: it's because it wouldn't turn. Why did I buy the Porsche? Because it does a lot of things well and, well, it's a 911. I surely shouldn't have to tell anyone on this forum that driving a 911 is something special. It's almost impossible to sum up, but whereas the Corvette I mentioned lacked soul, the 911 is brimming over with it. You can stand there and look at a 911 and, even without driving it, you know it's something a little bit special. I can live with its shortcomings because it's one of my dream cars.

I also never said it didn't handle well. I said my Lancer handled better and it does. It's also faster in a straight line. My Lancer isn't stock in either the engine or handling department so I find it hard to understand why people insist on arguing this with me because unless you've seen it go round a track then you really have no idea. I can take a Civic and throw money at it and make it quicker round the track than a 996 C4. But, at the end of the day, it's a Civic with a lot of money spent on it; just as my Lancer is a Lancer with money thrown at it. Even if I come in second in the 996 then, well, I'm still driving a 996.

silotwo

UFO - at $28,900 with the engine failure it seems like the bottom line is that you got a bum deal. That happens, wish I could say that I never got hoodwinked in a deal, but sometimes no matter how careful we think we are this kind of thing happens. I was sort of hoping you either stole the car or the PO priced in what he might of known it was going to cost to make it straight. Then again, maybe there was no mal-intent on his part either. Unfortunately, for what you paid and the cost of even a "good" deal on an installed engine, you'll be upside down value wise. Wish I had something to tell you that would help, but I don't. I would agree however that getting out from under is probably your best move. Who knows what other mechanical demons might be awaiting you with this car. Hope for the best.

TT Gasman

UFO, I don't know if you still need an engine or not, as I didn't have time to read thru the entire thread. But, I was at Eurocar- werk in Bellaire the other day, he has a complete 996 engine sitting in his shop. I know it's used, maybe you can get a good deal on it.
Good luck

UFO007

Thanks for the heads up. They must be closed today as nobody's answering. Are they a decent shop? Should I trust them with the install or take it somewhere else?

RS 197

Don't give up on Porsche. you need an aircooled car for 2/3 the price. Seems it would fit your driving style and your budget.... My favorate car to drive is my 964 RS. It makes yourC4 feel like a boat anchor....Or step up to a GT3... It has all the goodies and won't blow up on you....Or a track preped SC... My GT3 can't keep up with them on the track....

Don't take these 996 guys to personal. They love their cars....It is not their fault Porsche has had some problems with the waterboilers.....

UFO007

I (normally) spend 99% of my car inside & driving it and 1% of my time looking at it. Therefore, the interior has to be aesthetically pleasing to some degree (yeah, I know I drive a Lancer) and the older 911s just do nothing for me in that regard. I much prefer the 996.

Anyway, dealer offered me $10K for the car on a trade.... I just don't seem able to get a break.

BruceP

Maybe I missed some twists and turns on this story, but if the issue is a replaced motor, isn't the most rational thing to do to keep driving it? That's the only way to get your money out. Thanks to our dollar, for example, my 996 has depreciated at least the cost of a new motor in the year and a half I've had it. The last thing I'd do now is sell it... that would turn a theoretical loss into a real one. Whereas, if you get a couple years of pleasure out of it, the eventual real loss will be reduced by the value of the use you got out of it.

I fully understand being pissed about this. But the most economical move you could make now would be to fix the car and put some miles on it.

silotwo

Allow me to preface my next comment: I am not saying anything definite, these are just what my thoughts would be if faced with the same situation.

Before I would make the investment in the engine, I would be looking to somehow get a level of confidence that I wouldn't be faced with any other major repair right around the corner. I would be considering that the trashed engine could be the cause of abuse or lack of appropriate maintainance and repair by the PO. If that was true, there is plenty left that could break and cost major bucks.

I'd also be biting down real hard considering the following:
I need to put approximately 10K in for the engine - so now I am in for 10K more than I agreed to originally. At this point I would be forced to accept that I am in for $38,900 for the 01 with 75K and a good and warranteed enginge. We don't know much else about the condition of the car, I think UFO said it had more scratches and was dirtier than he expected it to be. (Another opinion of mine is that when an owner can't be bothered with the appearance of the car, what everyone can see, he probably was less than diligent about taking care of what can't be seen)

Or - if I accept 10K on a trade, I am out 19K on the deal and now I am 19k more in for a P-car that I orignally agreed to.

So, my at risk on a decision would be 9k, I already lost the 10K, cry all I want to, it's my party, but done is done. Then I'd have to believe that if I keep the car it will be straight and I will not be forced to go in for 9k or more for unscheduled repairs for at least the next few years.

Or, I could eat the 9k up front and risk that I will find a truly straight, and hopefully waranteed, P-car that meets what I was looking for in the first place.

Sure, there is plenty more in the details that could be considered, but at a high level, this is what would really having me thinking, and quite pissed not to say the least. And of course, if I buy another one and start at retail above $28,900 - then I am even more in.

Again, these are just my thoughts. I really do hope you find a way to negotiate well no matter which way you decide to go.

BruceP

I'd feel the same way; I'm just saying I'm not sure how much sense it would make. There really isn't a lot of expensive stuff to break outside the engine compartment. And a great detailer can do magical things with minor paint damage and even interior flaws. Even adding those costs in, you're still not in as deep a hole as you would be cutting bait right now.

That said, I understand better than a lot of people how emotion weighs into these things. You have to sleep, and you have to grin when you look at what's in your driveway. Those things are worth something, too.

UFO007

Emotion? What's that? I told myself that I wasn't going to go look at the car while it was at the dealership because I'm pretty sure the credit card would have slipped out if I had. It's a bit of a roller coaster ride for me right now: one minute I'm at peace with the situation and the next I'm mad as hell. I just feel all alone. Even $10K is a lot of money to me and I've yet to find a reconditioned engine for anything close to that. I WILL NOT put in a used engine without a warranty as to go through this again would be suicidal.

I've neglected one very important point in the equation: I bought the car off of eBay. Why didn't I disclose this? Well, I'm embarrassed about getting ripped off for a start and was hoping to sidestep the 'you should never buy off eBay' comments. Now, I do get VPP with eBay but it's up to 30 days past the end date of the item. I'm passed that point by over 2 weeks (it took over a week to get the car here). Not sure how much they would help anyway.

I'm just rambling here. I spent yesterday removing all the bits from the Engine in the Lancer and will spend tomorrow pulling the exhaust and removing the stereo (god damn are my hands/knuckles sore). Thinking of trading it in on a Fit or something (I was hoping to trade it in with the broken 996 on a different Porsche) so at least I have something to drive. Worst case scenario right now: buy the engine, stock up on beer & pizza, get a few mates round and see what a mess we can make. Speaking of beer: tonight I drink!

BruceP

Don't feel too bad about the eBay thing. I bought mine on a freakin' impulse. From a DEALER no less. At Canadian prices! And didn't have it independently inspected until AFTER I took delivery. Then paid handsomely to get all the stuff fixed that, had I known about it, would have scared me off. And then, to top it off, didn't find Rennlist until after the fat lady sang.

And yet I love it.

Enjoy the beer!

TT Gasman

I drive by the place nearly everyday, but I have only ever used them once. I needed some tire work done. They did a good job, but I thought they were a tad expensive. The guy who runs the place is named Eric, seems like he knows his stuff. Good luck.