Have to disagree, the BMW driver doesn't "owe" him anything. IF he wanted to he could offer to pay for damages but he didn't so as far as i'm concerned game over, tough luck, you eat it... period.

 

I have found the NE BMECCA Club DE programs to be better in many respects that their PCA counterparts. There is more instructor time with students, even in the Advanced run groups.

 

Disagree all you want as I was giving MY OPINION. But if the driver admits to following too close trying to keep up for the purpose of trying to see the line of another driver then that is a situation where he is at fault. Does he owe him? Literally no. You misread my post. He owes him as that is the gentlemanly thing to do. Maybe that is just me.

 

First, track incidents don't "just happen" in a DE. Rules are structured for safety. You as a driver should have a plan for when you get into trouble. I have multiple times drvien straight off (both feet in and under control) when I was traveling too fast for a corner. It sounds like he was concentrating to much on the driver in front and not enough on the rest of the track.

Using another driver on the track to learn from observation is not a bad thing. In fact, it is a very good practive for advanced Yellow and White; but it should NEVER be doen without both drivers in agreement before entering the track. The object is to find someone with a similar pace as you that you can run with and switch (voluntarily) to see how each other is driver. The feedback is usually very beneficial for both drivers. You can also have much faster advanced drivers do something similar, but the faster driver will slow down to your pace and control the pace. Then it can slowly build it to a level where you are in control and safe.

I don't really want to be negative toward the BMW club, but I am not as surprsed to hear of this happening at a BMW club event. Even though locally the BMW club and the Porsche club use many of the same instructors, the Porsche club is far better structured. PCA has more classes and better definition between classes. The pace differential inside a single class is much closer and the pace is in general faster per class.

As far as insurance goes, as a BMWCCA event the event is REQUIRED to be covered by BMWCCA insurance with cover up to $10M in personal injury and personal property damage. To file a claim, you need to contact the event organizer or go directly to the national committee.

 

sorry hear hear the mishap. i applaud your attitude on how to handle damaged cars. but in real world, i doubt any organizer can force participants to carry insurance.

that said, i take similar attitude to yours when on track. sh*t happens, your fault or not, be prepared to deal with it physically and financially. i had a car totalled by another drive who drove into me. he was apologetic, but i paid for my car's damage out of pkt.

 

actually it does. here are some examples.

say i missed my apex, went wide. you are behind me and went wider to avoid hitting me, the third car went off and hit you... so who's fault is it? (i would say no one, everyone pays their own bills)

say, i have a well maintained car, but i sucked at shifting and blew a downshift at 100mph into first gear, blew motor, and i got off line as quick as i know (to avoid oiling the track). but the car behind me hits oil and drove into a wall b/c of that. is it my fault. sure i missed a shift, i sucked. but that's why i am on track to practice. is this what we mean by "things just happen"?

another incident, which happened to me not long ago. someone chasing me and we both run fairly consitent times and lines. but suddenly my brake went soft. i pumped and then it came right back so my car stopped more than i wanted to. chaser was a foot off my *** and if i braked like i did the lap before all would be fine, but due to my brk issues, he didn't expect me to stop so abruptly and got so close he had to swerve and lock up. now if he swerved and lost ctrl hitting a wall... who's at fault? i would say this is another "things just happen" episode no?

 

This is a risky sport. Don't play if you are expecting an inquiry into ultimate blame for damage and a check from the one who was deemed "guilty"

It just doesn't work that way.

Sometimes fault is clear, and the person to blame is a wealthy gentleman, so he pays . . .

Sometimes fault is clear, and the person to blame is the best guy in the world but he just doesn't have the extra $$ to pay for a GT3, which is why he is driving a 912 on the track.

Sometimes fault is clear, and the dude who caused it doesn't even bother to come by and see the damage (ask }{ about that one).

This is one of the many reasons I race a n/a 944 rather than a GT car . . .

 

There is always a cause, but short of mitigating at the nth degree, track incidents WILL "just happen". If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself with a very dangerous sense of security. I once thought as you do. I've learned my lesson the hard and expensive way.

Did you watch the ALMS race today on CBS? If so, did you see the cars that spun as a result of broken suspension pieces? Don't you think those guys did everything they could to ensure those cars are prepared and well maintained? Do you think DE drivers maintain their cars to the same level of perfection? Now tell me why similar failures can't or don't happen in DEs. They do. Take my experienced word for it.

 

AUDI R10

 

That is my point Dell. I agree.

When I said "appeal" to the BMW driver, I did not mean sue him.

If he is a gentleman he may offer to pay for part of the damage. However, I do not believe that he is legally (or morally) responsible to do so. Ask yourself this, if you are DE'ing your car and you bounce of the wall into the path of a Carrera GT and he totals his car in an impact with yours, do you owe him a new car?

 

This is EXACTLY my point.

The answers to the questions shouldn't vary based on price of the car.

You either have an obligation, or you do not.

I think there is no obligation.

If you can AND it was your fault, it is a nice gesture, but nothing more than that.

If someone cannot, or even just will not, it should not be held against them.

If you hold it against them, then YOU didn't understand the rules of the game going in . . .

 

This talk about NOT going after the other driver is a clear path to the death of personal liability. The other driver screwed up, it sounds like he admitted to doing so, and then looked the OP in the eye and said he couldn't pay.

Not going after the BMW club is understandable. Not going after the idiot that messed up your car? Nuts.

 

Yes, I've seen that happen after a couple of car to car incidents in PCA DE. In both cases, the signature of both participants on the waiver was a key in a dropping of the suit.

You can always spend your own money to generate a lawsuit. If it is frivolous enough, you can even spend your own money to pay for your opponents costs.

 

This attitude is what is wrong with this country.

 

I agree.