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Update on my end...I have a 997 Turbo which has a hydraulic assisted clutch so may not really apply to all
I removed my spring in the fall and only drove it around the block. I liked the slightly extra pedal effort and still do. However, after taking it out of storage a couple of days ago and putting about 150 miles, I simply can't get the hang of the clutch. I've stalled the car more in one day than I have in the 8 years I've owned it. I may reinstall the helper spring and see if I go back to not stalling it...I actually worry now when I'm stopped and need to start moving again which i something that was not an issue before and takes enjoyment away from the car. Maybe I just need to get used to it?? Sucks because I really do like the extra pedal force required vs with the helper spring. I would estimate 20-30% more force required so really not that much.
Guys, you can easily release the spring by hand. It's a 90lb spring. It's easy to grip using both hands....and then of course the new spring is much easier. If you've ever used a "hard" grip stregnth trainer odds are it was 100lb...and that's just one hand.
Arthritis keeps me from doing it by hand.
Originally Posted by Johnny DB
Update on my end...I have a 997 Turbo which has a hydraulic assisted clutch so may not really apply to all
I removed my spring in the fall and only drove it around the block. I liked the slightly extra pedal effort and still do. However, after taking it out of storage a couple of days ago and putting about 150 miles, I simply can't get the hang of the clutch. I've stalled the car more in one day than I have in the 8 years I've owned it. I may reinstall the helper spring and see if I go back to not stalling it...I actually worry now when I'm stopped and need to start moving again which i something that was not an issue before and takes enjoyment away from the car. Maybe I just need to get used to it?? Sucks because I really do like the extra pedal force required vs with the helper spring. I would estimate 20-30% more force required so really not that much.
I'm going the other direction, and I'm still trying to get used to it.
Give it some more miles.
I prefer the non-spring feel, but my knee doesn't....that's why I bought a new spring for mine.
Those of you looking for more control of the clutch engagement need to learn about the Marcel Spring, if your clutch disk is old, the Marcel Spring is probably not functioning as designed, and the engagement is more ON/OFF than you would like, the Marcel Spring increases the ON/OFF pedal travel distance to make clutch engagement a lot easier to control to prevent stalling.
The Marcel Spring is a spring steel wave washer between the two friction plates of the clutch disk.
The Marcel Spring does NOT effect the effort/pressure needed to press the clutch pedal.
Race Clutches or Street/Strip clutches do not contain a Marcel Spring and are much more" ON/OFF switch like"..(ie easy to stall).
The Marcel Spring makes the clutch engagement very cushy and predictable, without it (or it's flattened/weakened) the engagement is course and unpredictable.
So if you are having "stalling issues" you may just need a new disk with a fresh "Marcel Spring"..it doesn't matter if you have the "helper spring" or not, the "helper spring" just effects pedal pressure and does nothing for the "actual engagement distance"...
Last edited by Porschetech3; 03-29-2021 at 03:59 PM.
Those of you looking for more control of the clutch engagement need to learn about the Marcel Spring, if your clutch disk is old, the Marcel Spring is probably not functioning as designed, and the engagement is more ON/OFF than you would like, the Marcel Spring increases the ON/OFF pedal travel distance to make clutch engagement a lot easier to control to prevent stalling.
The Marcel Spring is a spring steel wave washer between the two friction plates of the clutch disk.
The Marcel Spring does NOT effect the effort/pressure needed to press the clutch pedal.
Race Clutches or Street/Strip clutches do not contain a Marcel Spring and are much more" ON/OFF switch like"..(ie easy to stall).
The Marcel Spring makes the clutch engagement very cushy and predictable, without it (or it's flattened/weakened) the engagement is course and unpredictable.
So if you are having "stalling issues" you may just need a new disk with a fresh "Marcel Spring"..it doesn't matter if you have the "helper spring" or not, the "helper spring" just effects pedal pressure and does nothing for the "actual engagement distance"...
How about a G28 double disc transmission in a 928? Marcels and springs all over the place!
Well I put the spring back in and haven’t stalled once or even come close so no idea what’s going on. All I can say is that I prefer the heavier pedal feel without the spring but I’ll take a light pedal and no stalling any day...
can’t believe how light the pedal is once you get used to it without. I thought I put my foot through the floor
I have a 996 Turbo with the hydraulically assisted clutch and I have stalled that car more times in the last 4-5 years driving than all my other manual trans cars in over half a million miles! I finally changed out the hydraulically assisted clutch for the "GT2" non assisted setup - which is MUCH stiffer - and haven't had stalling problems since.
Has anyone solved the 996.1 CC issue without reinstalling the spring assembly? I didn't know this was even a thing when I bought my 2000 C2, but I came to find out spring assembly was removed by a previous owner but I have the intermitted cruise control issues. found that putting my foot under the clutch pedal solves the CC issue, so I really want to get that fixed. I don't feel like the pedal pressure is too bad, but it's the only 996 I've driven so I thought it was just a standard stiff sportscar clutch. It's much, much easier than my old cable operated race clutch in my VW bug when I was a teenager (now THAT was a stiff clutch).
I'm wondering if I should buy a new OEM (or cheaper aftermarket) assembly and replace the spring with a lighter one, or somehow shim the clutch release switch so the CC doesn't think I'm pressing the clutch when I hit a little bump.
You might buy one and cut out some of the coil.
My broken spring allowed my CC to work.
I tested my CC, but I never really used it, so if it is an intermittent issue, then a cut spring might not work.
I'm trying this mod for the first time and struggling.
The nail goes through the hole at the end of the canister in the purple circle, correct?
I removed a clip at the end of the gold pin, but the pin is not budging and I'm not sure which way it should budge to begin with.
Do I slide the pin laterally to the passenger side of the car? There doesn't seem to be any clearance to get it out. This seems to be the only way out as there is a hex head on that side of the pin. Or, do I slide it towards the driver's door, on the side where the clip was? Or am I totally misunderstanding the point, and it pops out of the hinge down to the floor?
Just to confirm, I need to be pushing down the pedal with the nail in it before I slide out the pin, correct?
I'm trying this mod for the first time and struggling.
The nail goes through the hole at the end of the canister in the purple circle, correct?
I removed a clip at the end of the gold pin, but the pin is not budging and I'm not sure which way it should budge to begin with.
Do I slide the pin laterally to the passenger side of the car? There doesn't seem to be any clearance to get it out. This seems to be the only way out as there is a hex head on that side of the pin. Or, do I slide it towards the driver's door, on the side where the clip was? Or am I totally misunderstanding the point, and it pops out of the hinge down to the floor?
Just to confirm, I need to be pushing down the pedal with the nail in it before I slide out the pin, correct?
Thanks for your help!
You are looking good, I just did it on mine and you don't actually need to pull the hex pin out, I am not sure if mine is different but once I had the nail in back I just pushed down on clutch to about half of travel and the spring simply slipped out from its pivot point towards the front of the vehicle when the hex pin dropped out of the teeth on the pedal it rests in. Mine is on a 2001 c2 for reference and looked identical to yours.
For what it's worth I though this mod was gimmicky and reinstalled after a 10 minute spin, way less modulation over clutch travel and easier to stall for me. It's not the strength required that is problematic more so the linearity of the stroke that is much worse in my opinion. So your mileage may vary. In addition my cruise control no longer actuated without very slightly lifting up clutch pedal with toes about 5mm.
I felt the modulation around the engagement zone was much harder to dose linearly and became either on/off, leading to juddering and nearly stalling.
I suppose this mod could be good if you are 100% tracking and want super hard clutch drop in between shifts, but honestly even then I just thought this was distracting. I have had a track car with an unsprung race clutch and that wasn't hard for me.
Zeitgeist- What werk-1 says. The way I popped my helper spring off was to cut an ‘x’ in a tennis ball, shove the ball on the end of a broom stick, put the blunt stick end on the clutch pedal/ball end on driver seat back and run the seat back forward with electric switch until clutch was half pressed or a little more. That way I could be doing underdash yoga and still manipulate the clutch pedal with one hand and helper spring with the other.
You are looking good, I just did it on mine and you don't actually need to pull the hex pin out, I am not sure if mine is different but once I had the nail in back I just pushed down on clutch to about half of travel and the spring simply slipped out from its pivot point towards the front of the vehicle when the hex pin dropped out of the teeth on the pedal it rests in. Mine is on a 2001 c2 for reference and looked identical to yours.
For what it's worth I though this mod was gimmicky and reinstalled after a 10 minute spin, way less modulation over clutch travel and easier to stall for me. It's not the strength required that is problematic more so the linearity of the stroke that is much worse in my opinion. So your mileage may vary. In addition my cruise control no longer actuated without very slightly lifting up clutch pedal with toes about 5mm.
I felt the modulation around the engagement zone was much harder to dose linearly and became either on/off, leading to juddering and nearly stalling.
I suppose this mod could be good if you are 100% tracking and want super hard clutch drop in between shifts, but honestly even then I just thought this was distracting. I have had a track car with an unsprung race clutch and that wasn't hard for me.
Great, thank you!
The reason I'm doing the mod is because I'm now struggling quite a bit to find the engagement point on my clutch and it's frankly embarrassing, I've never had this problem with any other car and am like a grandma off the line. I'm in a 2001 C4 - previous owner had the clutch replaced at 32k, I bought the car at 42k and am now at 62k. When I bought the car the engagement point was closer to the floor and I had no problem with clutch action, but it seems to have worn "up" to higher in the pedal stroke and I can't seem to find it easily and naturally anymore. I'm 6'1 and it feels like someone shorter might have more luck, I really have to pull my leg far back to get to the point and have a hard time "feeling it." I'm not necessarily seeking a heavier clutch, previous cars were either Miatas (lighter feel) or WRXes (heavier feel), and I like the level of resistance in the Porsche - it's just impossible to tell where the engagement point is these days. I'm also borrowing a friends 202k mile E46 with an ancient clutch right now and it's a breeze to operate, so that gives me some hope that I'm not a complete idiot.
Is it easy to reinstall once the spring is out, or do you have to apply a lot of pressure to put the genie back in the bottle? Are aftermarket springs a better way to go? (Sorry I'm late to the party on this, I'm tryin to suss out what information I can from the older posts in the thread).
Did this today. Can finally tell where the clutch starts engaging. Much, much better. I think it's still one of the worst clutches I''ve dealt with in the many manual cars I've driven over the years, but at least I don't stall it all the time. Next is the shift right kit and maybe this thing will actually shift like a performance car
03-29-2021, 02:06 PM
