Porsche N-Spec Tires
04-17-2008, 01:58 AM
#151
Banned
post your pic in my mug thread. it's only azn and white dudes so far with a little bit of other browns mixed in. diversity rules just like mods.
Last edited by Benjamin Choi; 04-17-2008 at 02:28 AM.
04-17-2008, 03:03 AM
#153
Banned
you seriously have to be the first african-american gentleman here that i know of.
04-17-2008, 03:57 AM
#154
How am I a nerd? Because I'm able to construct a well-reasoned argument? Because you were left so defeated by my wit you had no recourse but to resort to ad hominem attacks? Well step right up to the plate, Holmes, because guess what, I probably have more of a party lifestyle than you do out in those Washington boondocks!
you seriously have to be the first african-american gentleman here that i know of.
04-17-2008, 10:11 AM
#156
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04-17-2008, 10:56 AM
#157
Banned
Hahaha. So on one hand you celebrate "diversity" but on the other you admit an aversion to nerds? How very bigoted of you.
How am I a nerd? Because I'm able to construct a well-reasoned argument? Because you were left so defeated by my wit you had no recourse but to resort to ad hominem attacks? Well step right up to the plate, Holmes, because guess what, I probably have more of a party lifestyle than you do out in those Washington boondocks!
And you seriously have to be the first person here that continuously harps on race, as if it matters. You can respond to me - the person, not some ethereal concept of a particular group I might belong to.
How am I a nerd? Because I'm able to construct a well-reasoned argument? Because you were left so defeated by my wit you had no recourse but to resort to ad hominem attacks? Well step right up to the plate, Holmes, because guess what, I probably have more of a party lifestyle than you do out in those Washington boondocks!
And you seriously have to be the first person here that continuously harps on race, as if it matters. You can respond to me - the person, not some ethereal concept of a particular group I might belong to.
HAHA now you're going to compare not only who's in better shape, but now party lifestyle? Can't even step up to admit that you're NOT black cuz I got you cornered with your bigoted pic post... Like I said, show us what you got cuz we all know I ain't hiding.
All you've shown us are the following to date:
-you're a self admitted stock setup worshipper ("porsche gods")
-you have a hard time admitting or understanding that you are in fact on an enthusiast board where a great many people have modified their 911 beyond cosmetics and are thoroughly enjoying the improvements
-you've read up on my posts and you don't like my lifestyle, my image, my whatever
-you've shown us nothing to back up your claims of a party lifestyle, your fitness level, etc (big TUV keyboard, no pics)
all the above have formed a perfect storm and you've been posting in this forum like you've never posted before. all eyez on me, sucka.
04-17-2008, 03:29 PM
#159
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As the person who started this thread, I think it would be appropriate to report on my long-term experience (over the course of 10K miles) with the 17" N-spec Michelin Pilot Sport Ribs I installed last May on my '99 coupe.
1. The tires have performed admirably in both normal and "spirited" (sometimes VERY spirited) street use. Cornering and braking performance continue to impress, and the tires are both compliant and quiet, generating very little road noise. I haven't tracked the car, nor I have driven in any autocross/DE events, so I can't speak to how the tires might perform under those conditions.
2. I have no valid test results to compare and contrast the performance of my tires with any others on any car of similar type driven in a similar fashion. However, I believe that these tires have allowed me to take full advantage my car's capabilities.
3. I feel that I made a good decision in selecting the N-spec tires, as they have performed as well as I had hoped they would. Further, when I go around a corner or an on/off ramp at high speed, I don't have to think about whether or not I have the right tires on the car. For me, that's a good feeling.
1. The tires have performed admirably in both normal and "spirited" (sometimes VERY spirited) street use. Cornering and braking performance continue to impress, and the tires are both compliant and quiet, generating very little road noise. I haven't tracked the car, nor I have driven in any autocross/DE events, so I can't speak to how the tires might perform under those conditions.
2. I have no valid test results to compare and contrast the performance of my tires with any others on any car of similar type driven in a similar fashion. However, I believe that these tires have allowed me to take full advantage my car's capabilities.
3. I feel that I made a good decision in selecting the N-spec tires, as they have performed as well as I had hoped they would. Further, when I go around a corner or an on/off ramp at high speed, I don't have to think about whether or not I have the right tires on the car. For me, that's a good feeling.
04-17-2008, 04:20 PM
#160
Still plays with cars.
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Guys, let's take a deep breath please. I posted way back in this thread and few paid attention.
N spec tires are those tested by Porsche and approved for use on the vehicle. One intelligent remark (there are many not-so-smart posts) observed that our tires are part of the suspension and that Porsche specs tires which work they way the vehicle dynamics engineers want them to.
Nobody mentioned the fact that the ABS and PSM systems are also calibrated to work with the spec tires. That's part of design and specification for N rated tires.
Does this mean that non N rated tires should be avoided? No. There are plenty of perfectly good tires out there which Porsche does not have time to test. It also explains why certain N rated tires have different tread patterns from the (usually newer) non N tires. The Bridgestone SO2 is a good example. Once tested and approved, the manufacturer is not allowed to change any aspect of the tire affecting performance without a retest. Tires with N1, N2 etc. represent tires which have been recertified due to construction changes.
So why bother certifying the tires at all? Porsche is OCD about performance. They are also OCD about avoiding lawsuits - they have suffered in the US and they remain (correctly in my opinion) traumatized.
By certifying a care with specific tires, Porsche can demonstrate that the handling, braking and stability control work properly and have been tested. If you put on a different tire and try to sue Porsche for a handling defect, you have a problem.
Benjamin Choi likes to run with fat tires. Fine. It is his choice. Since he put them on, a loss of control due to aquaplaning is his problem and he can't find PAG responsible. Does his car have better handling in the dry? Probably - not that Porsche cares, they are off the hook for any handling defect.
Jury - please allow me a correction. When it comes to dry handling on smooth pavement, nothing beats a big fat race slick. Of course it would be deadly in the rain but racers have spare wheels and rain tires for the purpose. Porsche has to assume that the majority of owners will drive their car in all weather conditions. The average guy cannot pull in for a 1 minute pit stop and fit rain specific tires after all. This forces them to compromise on tire width and tread patterns to have something which performs respectably under all conditions. Within those constraints, they come up with an intelligent compromise, then test it extensively under varied conditions. The result is the N spec tire.
For those who commented on sidewall stiffness, you are correct. The sidewall of the tire affects how the car responds at initial turn-in as well as the slip angle of the tire. The PSM and Yaw Control systems in modern Porsches are calibrated to the response of the (you guessed it) N rated tires. N rated tires for a spefcific model will all have very similar tire slip angles, and PSM knows those slip angles. The N rated tires are guaranteed to perform. That being said, an equally good non N rated tire can be just as good but you won't know until AFTER you buy them.
I hope this puts the matter to rest. benjamin and jury, please watch for a PM from me.
Best,
N spec tires are those tested by Porsche and approved for use on the vehicle. One intelligent remark (there are many not-so-smart posts) observed that our tires are part of the suspension and that Porsche specs tires which work they way the vehicle dynamics engineers want them to.
Nobody mentioned the fact that the ABS and PSM systems are also calibrated to work with the spec tires. That's part of design and specification for N rated tires.
Does this mean that non N rated tires should be avoided? No. There are plenty of perfectly good tires out there which Porsche does not have time to test. It also explains why certain N rated tires have different tread patterns from the (usually newer) non N tires. The Bridgestone SO2 is a good example. Once tested and approved, the manufacturer is not allowed to change any aspect of the tire affecting performance without a retest. Tires with N1, N2 etc. represent tires which have been recertified due to construction changes.
So why bother certifying the tires at all? Porsche is OCD about performance. They are also OCD about avoiding lawsuits - they have suffered in the US and they remain (correctly in my opinion) traumatized.
By certifying a care with specific tires, Porsche can demonstrate that the handling, braking and stability control work properly and have been tested. If you put on a different tire and try to sue Porsche for a handling defect, you have a problem.
Benjamin Choi likes to run with fat tires. Fine. It is his choice. Since he put them on, a loss of control due to aquaplaning is his problem and he can't find PAG responsible. Does his car have better handling in the dry? Probably - not that Porsche cares, they are off the hook for any handling defect.
Jury - please allow me a correction. When it comes to dry handling on smooth pavement, nothing beats a big fat race slick. Of course it would be deadly in the rain but racers have spare wheels and rain tires for the purpose. Porsche has to assume that the majority of owners will drive their car in all weather conditions. The average guy cannot pull in for a 1 minute pit stop and fit rain specific tires after all. This forces them to compromise on tire width and tread patterns to have something which performs respectably under all conditions. Within those constraints, they come up with an intelligent compromise, then test it extensively under varied conditions. The result is the N spec tire.
For those who commented on sidewall stiffness, you are correct. The sidewall of the tire affects how the car responds at initial turn-in as well as the slip angle of the tire. The PSM and Yaw Control systems in modern Porsches are calibrated to the response of the (you guessed it) N rated tires. N rated tires for a spefcific model will all have very similar tire slip angles, and PSM knows those slip angles. The N rated tires are guaranteed to perform. That being said, an equally good non N rated tire can be just as good but you won't know until AFTER you buy them.
I hope this puts the matter to rest. benjamin and jury, please watch for a PM from me.
Best,
04-17-2008, 04:25 PM
#161
Does this mean that non N rated tires should be avoided? No. There are plenty of perfectly good tires out there which Porsche does not have time to test. It also explains why certain N rated tires have different tread patterns from the (usually newer) non N tires. The Bridgestone SO2 is a good example. Once tested and approved, the manufacturer is not allowed to change any aspect of the tire affecting performance without a retest. Tires with N1, N2 etc. represent tires which have been recertified due to construction changes.
Anyway, thank you for taking the time to post this.
04-17-2008, 04:50 PM
#163
Still plays with cars.
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One addition to my post above, I got three PM's asking why Mercedes (for example) does not spec tires "N" rated the way Porsche does. As far as I know, Mercedes carefully selects OEM tires and suggests that owners use only tires approved by MB. They need not go as far as Porsche because (in my opinion only - I speculate) the average person driving a Benz is unlikely to get anywhere near the limits of the car. Stability control on the Benz intervenes very early - no fun at all on my E 500 4-matic for example) whereas Porsche tolerates a good deal of slip (drift) and intervenes only when things get out of hand. This puts a lot more emphasis on carefully calibrating the relationship between tires and the ABS and PSM systems. This is only possible if the performance characteristics of the tires are known. In sum Porsche knows that owners of its vehicles are likely to drive in a more "spirited" fashion.
Best,
Best,
04-17-2008, 04:52 PM
#164
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Guys, let's take a deep breath please. I posted way back in this thread and few paid attention.
N spec tires are those tested by Porsche and approved for use on the vehicle. One intelligent remark (there are many not-so-smart posts) observed that our tires are part of the suspension and that Porsche specs tires which work they way the vehicle dynamics engineers want them to.
Nobody mentioned the fact that the ABS and PSM systems are also calibrated to work with the spec tires. That's part of design and specification for N rated tires.
Does this mean that non N rated tires should be avoided? No. There are plenty of perfectly good tires out there which Porsche does not have time to test. It also explains why certain N rated tires have different tread patterns from the (usually newer) non N tires. The Bridgestone SO2 is a good example. Once tested and approved, the manufacturer is not allowed to change any aspect of the tire affecting performance without a retest. Tires with N1, N2 etc. represent tires which have been recertified due to construction changes.
So why bother certifying the tires at all? Porsche is OCD about performance. They are also OCD about avoiding lawsuits - they have suffered in the US and they remain (correctly in my opinion) traumatized.
By certifying a care with specific tires, Porsche can demonstrate that the handling, braking and stability control work properly and have been tested. If you put on a different tire and try to sue Porsche for a handling defect, you have a problem.
Benjamin Choi likes to run with fat tires. Fine. It is his choice. Since he put them on, a loss of control due to aquaplaning is his problem and he can't find PAG responsible. Does his car have better handling in the dry? Probably - not that Porsche cares, they are off the hook for any handling defect.
Jury - please allow me a correction. When it comes to dry handling on smooth pavement, nothing beats a big fat race slick. Of course it would be deadly in the rain but racers have spare wheels and rain tires for the purpose. Porsche has to assume that the majority of owners will drive their car in all weather conditions. The average guy cannot pull in for a 1 minute pit stop and fit rain specific tires after all. This forces them to compromise on tire width and tread patterns to have something which performs respectably under all conditions. Within those constraints, they come up with an intelligent compromise, then test it extensively under varied conditions. The result is the N spec tire.
For those who commented on sidewall stiffness, you are correct. The sidewall of the tire affects how the car responds at initial turn-in as well as the slip angle of the tire. The PSM and Yaw Control systems in modern Porsches are calibrated to the response of the (you guessed it) N rated tires. N rated tires for a spefcific model will all have very similar tire slip angles, and PSM knows those slip angles. The N rated tires are guaranteed to perform. That being said, an equally good non N rated tire can be just as good but you won't know until AFTER you buy them.
I hope this puts the matter to rest. benjamin and jury, please watch for a PM from me.
Best,
N spec tires are those tested by Porsche and approved for use on the vehicle. One intelligent remark (there are many not-so-smart posts) observed that our tires are part of the suspension and that Porsche specs tires which work they way the vehicle dynamics engineers want them to.
Nobody mentioned the fact that the ABS and PSM systems are also calibrated to work with the spec tires. That's part of design and specification for N rated tires.
Does this mean that non N rated tires should be avoided? No. There are plenty of perfectly good tires out there which Porsche does not have time to test. It also explains why certain N rated tires have different tread patterns from the (usually newer) non N tires. The Bridgestone SO2 is a good example. Once tested and approved, the manufacturer is not allowed to change any aspect of the tire affecting performance without a retest. Tires with N1, N2 etc. represent tires which have been recertified due to construction changes.
So why bother certifying the tires at all? Porsche is OCD about performance. They are also OCD about avoiding lawsuits - they have suffered in the US and they remain (correctly in my opinion) traumatized.
By certifying a care with specific tires, Porsche can demonstrate that the handling, braking and stability control work properly and have been tested. If you put on a different tire and try to sue Porsche for a handling defect, you have a problem.
Benjamin Choi likes to run with fat tires. Fine. It is his choice. Since he put them on, a loss of control due to aquaplaning is his problem and he can't find PAG responsible. Does his car have better handling in the dry? Probably - not that Porsche cares, they are off the hook for any handling defect.
Jury - please allow me a correction. When it comes to dry handling on smooth pavement, nothing beats a big fat race slick. Of course it would be deadly in the rain but racers have spare wheels and rain tires for the purpose. Porsche has to assume that the majority of owners will drive their car in all weather conditions. The average guy cannot pull in for a 1 minute pit stop and fit rain specific tires after all. This forces them to compromise on tire width and tread patterns to have something which performs respectably under all conditions. Within those constraints, they come up with an intelligent compromise, then test it extensively under varied conditions. The result is the N spec tire.
For those who commented on sidewall stiffness, you are correct. The sidewall of the tire affects how the car responds at initial turn-in as well as the slip angle of the tire. The PSM and Yaw Control systems in modern Porsches are calibrated to the response of the (you guessed it) N rated tires. N rated tires for a spefcific model will all have very similar tire slip angles, and PSM knows those slip angles. The N rated tires are guaranteed to perform. That being said, an equally good non N rated tire can be just as good but you won't know until AFTER you buy them.
I hope this puts the matter to rest. benjamin and jury, please watch for a PM from me.
Best,
Enjoyed reading your post....guilty of enjoying the tire war as well
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